Does homeschooling violate liberal values?

[RickStain]

Explain to me what a la carte hurts, if the funding issues are solved?

The opposition to it is coming off as petty and coming from some sort of inferiority complex.

 

[jr/shotglass]

When I was 16, I attended a sportswriters' workshop at Point Park University in Pittsburgh. This was a bit of culture shock for a kid from small-town Shippensburg, Pa.

My first hour upon checking into the dorm (for those who don't know Point Park, it's three downtown skyscrapers joined by a walking bridge), I got into the elevator with a guy who smelled and had hair down to his waist.

Upon the elevator door closing, the guy passed out onto the floor. At the 10th floor, he got up from the floor as if nothing had happened and got off the elevator.

I left Point Park for home the next day, two days before the end of the workshop and more than a little disoriented.

Had I encountered this scene three years later, I would have understood what had happened. I'm glad I had the experiences necessary to understand it.

 

[proudpittsburgher]

That's just ridiculous, have everybody show up for 2-3 classes a day and an after-school activity, mmm hmmm. And regarding the taxpayers' right: They do have the right. To go to school. Not to pick out the parts of school they want and don't want.

Right. Because the way schools are set up now is working so well.

Explain to me what a la carte hurts, if the funding issues are solved?

The opposition to it is coming off as petty and coming from some sort of inferiority complex.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Mrs. PP

 

[LongTimeListener]

Explain to me what a la carte hurts, if the funding issues are solved?

The opposition to it is coming off as petty and coming from some sort of inferiority complex.

A la carte almost by definition hurts a student who is fully participating in the school. If it's sports or theater, that non-student takes a roster spot/role or playing time away from a student. If it's an advanced class with a limited enrollment of say 15, there's a student #16 who doesn't get to be in. Now, I could see an exception for an academic class that has a minimum entry standard and accepts all people above that standard, but if the numbers are limited at all, it should be limited to the students in the school.

Regarding after-school activities, though, in 100 percent of cases having the home-schooled kid on the team affects another student in some way. And with the proliferation of club teams, there are dozens of other outlets the home-schooled kid can pursue to play that sport.

 

[User 11148]

My first hour upon checking into the dorm (for those who don't know Point Park, it's three downtown skyscrapers joined by a walking bridge), I got into the elevator with a guy who smelled and had hair down to his waist.

Upon the elevator door closing, the guy passed out onto the floor. At the 10th floor, he got up from the floor as if nothing had happened and got off the elevator.

Hey, what the heck did happen? I'm pushing 50, been all over the world and had three careers ... and I don't have a clue as to what happened in your story.

 

[RickStain]

So as long as we aren't talking about limited spots and taking them away from other kids, then it's fine?

 

[jr/shotglass]

Hey, what the heck did happen? I'm pushing 50, been all over the world and had three careers ... and I don't have a clue as to what happened in your story.

The guy, I'm pretty sure, was having a drug moment.

And to underline the point of the story, sometimes the lessons you should receive in life don't always have to do with what's good and uplifting. Sometimes, you need to see the seamy underbelly to understand the totality of it all.

 

[LongTimeListener]

So as long as we aren't talking about limited spots and taking them away from other kids, then it's fine?

Yes, that would be OK with me ... however, the debate around the country seems to be about sports, and I can't see any way that allowing home-schoolers doesn't negatively affect other students at the school.

However, this setup did bestow upon us Tim Tebow. I'm so confused!

 

[Bob Cook]

So, Bob Cook, if I want my child to participate in a public school sport where I pay taxes (don't get me started on the fact that sports shouldn't be covered by school taxes, either), I may have to enroll my student in an academically failing school to have the privilege of playing the sport? If I keep my student at home and educate him there, I am saving the state money and providing a better education.

Mrs. PP

Mrs. PP, I respect your decision to homeschool. But you're painting the public school system with the same extremely broad brush you object to when others apply it to homeschoolers. I think my kids are getting a way better education in many ways than I did at their age, and I went to public schools that were considered the elite in their state.

As for putting your kids in after-school activities but not enrolling in school, yes, you are saving the state money. But you are costing your school district money. Depending on where you live, the state could be paying the biggest chunk of education costs. (I live in Illinois, which is very much the opposite of that.) So having your child choose activities a la carte is costing the school money.

As for the philosophical argument on schools offering extracurricular activities, while I would agree there are schools that go way overboard on making them priority No. 1, I believe they're a very important part of the school experience. They provide kids opportunities for learning and socialization outside a classroom setting. And they also bond students to the school. The concept of "school spirit" can seem hokey, but for many kids having those opportunities outside the classroom, under the school banner, can make them much more enthused and motivated about school in general. Also, they can provide low-cost opportunities for students of little means to get experience in sports, theater, music and other activities that they otherwise would be shut out of because of money. That's why many schools that institute pay-for-play fees see a decline in participation.

 

[93Devil]

Yes, jr/shotglass, you are being judgmental. I simply quoted a study where the author is a BJU professor; I didn't say our kids would be attending BJU. You are all welcome to pull out that one quote by a BJU professor - fair enough. My argument and the statistics FOR homeschooling will still stand.

93Devil, I can just as easily post stories and links of homeschooling families who thrive and are continuing to homeschool well into high school. Your logic is flawed. For example, is marriage a bad thing? I can just as easily tell a young couple, "Try marriage for awhile and see if it's for you." If it's not, and they quit their marriage (as many do), does that mean marriage is bad for ALL people?

I have homeschooled three kids at a time. It does take time and resources, and I'd suggest anyone who is interested in homeschooling to truly evaluate their local public schools as well as their state DOE and school system administrators, and the character of each of the possible teachers.

For the record, I spend my summers planning, we can spend anywhere from 3-8 hours a day homeschooling, and I can also do some of my work (research, assessment, etc.) at the same time my kids are doing their work. We also then don't deal with homework in the evenings, so we have much more family time.

For the cost, homeschooling can be done extremely cheaply (using the library and other free resources) to $2,000 or so per child at the top end. I generally spend $500 or so per child, not including "extras" like sports, co-op fees, etc.

Mrs. PP

Thank you for the responses, but a child is only four or five once. Doing a practice run for a few months before the student's possible first day of school will give the parent an idea if this is for them or not. If it's not, then the student starts public or private school with their classmates and the student is on track.

If you try home schooling on Sept 1st and it does not work, then enroll the student a few months later on Feb. 1st, that student will be behind their peers in acclimation to a classroom setting, at best, that the other students learned on Sept. 1st.

Your times seem about right. An average of six hours a day is pretty much optimal. The costs seem a little low to me, but I could see someone doing it for what you said.

You make a very good point about homework. I was never a fan of more than 5-15 minutes per subject at night, but some teachers are very heavy on it. My theory was if you couldn't do it in 5-15 minutes, why make you do it for 60 minutes? Reading or major project work would be the only exceptions.

 

[proudpittsburgher]

Bob Cook - I appreciate you pointing that out and will definitely keep that in mind when thinking about and debating public v. private v. homeschool settings. Thanks. And in case I haven't mentioned it before, I don't think everyone should homeschool. I do, however, believe that those who do homeschool should be left alone and not attacked for their personal choices.

I absolutely value extracurricular activities and sports. I will be one of the first to line up to sing the praises of teamwork, cooperation, learning how to lose, learning time management skills, etc... Our kids are involved in lots of activities (at our expense).

I just get frustrated that so much of an emphasis is placed on these, though, when academically, as a country, our students don't measure up to previous generations, and to students in other countries. I definitely think there can be a balance between academics and extras, but when tax dollars are limited, teachers and extra subjects are often cut before reductions are made in sports, etc. I just wish priorities were better in balance.

Mrs. PP

 

[Ben_Hecht]

As I said before, I'll take my chances on my kids being a little too sheltered than a little too un-sheltered.

There are lots of "parts of society" that I'd just as soon my kids NEVER encounter.

The editorial offices of the National Review, for openers.

 

[jr/shotglass]

That was an outstanding answer. Thank you. See bottom sig.

 

[SpeedTchr]

As I said before, I'll take my chances on my kids being a little too sheltered than a little too un-sheltered.

There are lots of "parts of society" that I'd just as soon my kids NEVER encounter.

The editorial offices of the National Review, for openers.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

As I said before, I'll take my chances on my kids being a little too sheltered than a little too un-sheltered.

There are lots of "parts of society" that I'd just as soon my kids NEVER encounter.

The editorial offices of the National Review, for openers.

Look in a mirror, stalker. You never deviate from the yahoo line. You're only the second guy I've ever put on ignore, but you've got nothing, and it'll never change.

 

[SpeedTchr]

Ooooooooo...."The Button"...... guess I won't be getting a Christmas card this year, either!

 

[outofplace]

First rule about The Button... Don't talk about The Button!