Does homeschooling violate liberal values?

[Dick Whitman]

That's what Slate asks today:

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/02/homeschooling_and_unschooling_among_liberals_and_progressives_.html

In a country increasingly separated by cultural chasms—Christian conservatives vs. secular humanists; Tea Partiers vs. Occupiers—should we really encourage children to trust only their parents or those hand-selected by them, and to mistrust civic life and public institutions?

As I said on an education thread that (most likely) became a ****storm as they often can, a couple of my wife's second cousins were home schooled. One is 18 and one is 21. Talking to them is like talking to two 40-year-olds. It is remarkable how they carry themselves, at least anecdotally shattering the stereotype of antisocial shut-ins. The parents both went to Northwestern, I believe. The girl goes to King College in NYC and the boy is looking for conservatives private schools - Wheaton College in Illinois, for example.

On the other hand, I am at least somewhat suspicious of what kind of science education they've had, for example, among other questions.

 

[YGBFKM]

What a load of crap.

 

[LongTimeListener]

If armed guards were good enough for Amy Carter, they should be good enough for all of us.

We do public schools, but not out of some huge sense of social obligation. Our public school works pretty well. Have a real mix of kids, but there's a path there for a high academic achiever.

A lot of people want the religious connection and the greater sense of community of a private school. That's fine. I think they're throwing their money away by putting $150,000 into a K-12 education that isn't really better than the public schools, but whatever. I do wish they'd realize that it isn't the private school making their kids "smarter," it's the affluence and education level of the parents who chose the school in the first place.

 

[Azrael]

What a load of crap.

What is?

 

[Dick Whitman]

If armed guards were good enough for Amy Carter, they should be good enough for all of us.

We do public schools, but not out of some huge sense of social obligation. Our public school works pretty well. Have a real mix of kids, but there's a path there for a high academic achiever.

A lot of people want the religious connection and the greater sense of community of a private school. That's fine. I think they're throwing their money away by putting $150,000 into a K-12 education that isn't really better than the public schools, but whatever. I do wish they'd realize that it isn't the private school making their kids "smarter," it's the affluence and education level of the parents who chose the school in the first place.

I pretty much agree all the way. I think one thing that you might get out of a good private school is the benefits of being around kids who mostly care about their education - I doubt that you get made fun of for being smart at a lot of these places as much as you do your average public school. On the other hand, you could just go to a good public school system (although by the time you factor in the cost of living in those towns, you end up spending more than you would at a private school).

It is going to be a tough line to walk with my children between trying not to control their lives to making sure that they are hanging out in social circles that help elevate them academically, not bring them down.

 

[YGBFKM]

Simple solution: Require all homeschool parents to teach to the values of the state. That way, they can't unduly influence their children.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Simple solution: Require all homeschool parents to teach to the values of the state. That way, they can't unduly influence their children.

I don't think that the idea is that the values of the state are impeccable. I think the idea is that part of liberal/progressive orthodoxy is that we should trust ourselves to come into contact with public institutions without risking moral or intellectual ruin.

 

[YGBFKM]

I can't see homeschooling a child myself, but has it been proven that homeschooling includes a fundamental mistrust of civic institutions? Seems the fundamental mistrust is coming from the other side.

 

[poindexter]

I doubt that you get made fun of for being smart at a lot of these places as much as you do your average public school.

a gross overexaggeration.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I doubt that you get made fun of for being smart at a lot of these places as much as you do your average public school.

a gross overexaggeration.

Not at my public school.

 

[Bob Cook]

YGBFKM, when your child gets old enough for school, if you do check out a public school, you're going to be shocked at how little indoctrination goes on there. Unless you count that they don't teach math the same way we were taught. I can't help my kids past, say, fourth grade, because the methods they use are completely different than what I used. I remember having a small tiff with my then-fifth-grade son because I was helped him with multiplying two-digit numbers, and I was getting the right answer, but he said I was wrong because that wasn't how he was taught.

Damn Commie Math. Though I guess how math is taught has always driven people crazy.


(Tom Lehrer -- "New Math")

 

[Stitch]

If armed guards were good enough for Amy Carter, they should be good enough for all of us.

We do public schools, but not out of some huge sense of social obligation. Our public school works pretty well. Have a real mix of kids, but there's a path there for a high academic achiever.

A lot of people want the religious connection and the greater sense of community of a private school. That's fine. I think they're throwing their money away by putting $150,000 into a K-12 education that isn't really better than the public schools, but whatever. I do wish they'd realize that it isn't the private school making their kids "smarter," it's the affluence and education level of the parents who chose the school in the first place.

I pretty much agree all the way. I think one thing that you might get out of a good private school is the benefits of being around kids who mostly care about their education - I doubt that you get made fun of for being smart at a lot of these places as much as you do your average public school. On the other hand, you could just go to a good public school system (although by the time you factor in the cost of living in those towns, you end up spending more than you would at a private school).

It is going to be a tough line to walk with my children between trying not to control their lives to making sure that they are hanging out in social circles that help elevate them academically, not bring them down.

If you think all kids at a private school value education, you're sorely off track.

 

[Dick Whitman]

If armed guards were good enough for Amy Carter, they should be good enough for all of us.

We do public schools, but not out of some huge sense of social obligation. Our public school works pretty well. Have a real mix of kids, but there's a path there for a high academic achiever.

A lot of people want the religious connection and the greater sense of community of a private school. That's fine. I think they're throwing their money away by putting $150,000 into a K-12 education that isn't really better than the public schools, but whatever. I do wish they'd realize that it isn't the private school making their kids "smarter," it's the affluence and education level of the parents who chose the school in the first place.

I pretty much agree all the way. I think one thing that you might get out of a good private school is the benefits of being around kids who mostly care about their education - I doubt that you get made fun of for being smart at a lot of these places as much as you do your average public school. On the other hand, you could just go to a good public school system (although by the time you factor in the cost of living in those towns, you end up spending more than you would at a private school).

It is going to be a tough line to walk with my children between trying not to control their lives to making sure that they are hanging out in social circles that help elevate them academically, not bring them down.

If you think all kids at a private school value education, you're sorely off track.

Does "mostly" = "all"?

 

[YGBFKM]

I don't have a problem with public schooling. I have a problem with the general idea that the state knows better than parents.

 

[Dick Whitman]

In ninth grade, a lot of the private school kids in town, those who didn't go to the local Catholic high school, finally joined us. The brightest among them were in the advanced classes in English and that might be about it. I know they were behind in science and math - or, to put it more accurately, they were in the regular grade-level classes, not the advanced ones. And I went to an average public school or slightly below.

 

[Stitch]

If armed guards were good enough for Amy Carter, they should be good enough for all of us.

We do public schools, but not out of some huge sense of social obligation. Our public school works pretty well. Have a real mix of kids, but there's a path there for a high academic achiever.

A lot of people want the religious connection and the greater sense of community of a private school. That's fine. I think they're throwing their money away by putting $150,000 into a K-12 education that isn't really better than the public schools, but whatever. I do wish they'd realize that it isn't the private school making their kids "smarter," it's the affluence and education level of the parents who chose the school in the first place.

I pretty much agree all the way. I think one thing that you might get out of a good private school is the benefits of being around kids who mostly care about their education - I doubt that you get made fun of for being smart at a lot of these places as much as you do your average public school. On the other hand, you could just go to a good public school system (although by the time you factor in the cost of living in those towns, you end up spending more than you would at a private school).

It is going to be a tough line to walk with my children between trying not to control their lives to making sure that they are hanging out in social circles that help elevate them academically, not bring them down.

If you think all kids at a private school value education, you're sorely off track.

Does "mostly" = "all"?

Mostly doesn't come close, either. Kids are their because their parents put them there for various reasons that ranges from wanting a better education, religious instruction, better facilities, or to appear wealthy.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I don't have a problem with public schooling. I have a problem with the general idea that the state knows better than parents.

Again, I don't think that's the idea. I think the idea is that we trust the state to do its job without trumping the values of the parents. That kids can get exposed to different viewpoints and come out no worse for the wear - and perhaps even better off.

 

[LongTimeListener]

I just realized we are talking about home schooling and not private schooling. I don't know whether I should blame my lack of reading comprehension skills on my private elementary education or public high school and college.

Home schooling, I don't see how it's political one way or the other. If there's a liberal checklist to be had, I imagine home schooling conforms pretty well with the liberal belief that they always know better than anybody what's best for everybody.

 

[Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!!]

We are pulling our kids out the private school this year and heading to Public School.
1: I finally convinced my wife it's too expensive.
And 2: I wasn't real thrilled with the education. I may have mentioned this before, but I keep waiting on my third grader to tell me Jesus discovered America. Too much emphasis on religion for me.
The public school system here isn't bad. My wife and I were both products of public schools
Our neighbor, who run a natural health foods store, his wife homeschools their five kids. They seem nice and normal, but they also don't interact with any of the neighborhood kids.
One of my FB friends, a girl from HS, homeschools her daughter, who has some sort of LD. But she says she's home schooling her to:
"I’m not attempting to socialize her to fit into society. In fact, I don't want her to fit into this society. I’m attempting to teach and help my child grow relationships first with God and then with others."
So there's that ...

Me, I am REALLY skeptical of anyone who homeschools or wants to homeschool their kids.

 

[jr/shotglass]

I wouldn't say I'm particularly a homeschooling fan, but **** did put his finger on a point in the favor of private schools. My guess, too, is that there's less "bullying" of youngsters who actually want to get an education. That type of peer pressure is very strong, and if you can eliminate it from a child's life, his/her chances of academic success have GOT to be better.

YGBFKM, when your child gets old enough for school, if you do check out a public school, you're going to be shocked at how little indoctrination goes on there. Unless you count that they don't teach math the same way we were taught. I can't help my kids past, say, fourth grade, because the methods they use are completely different than what I used. I remember having a small tiff with my then-fifth-grade son because I was helped him with multiplying two-digit numbers, and I was getting the right answer, but he said I was wrong because that wasn't how he was taught.

Damn Commie Math. Though I guess how math is taught has always driven people crazy.


(Tom Lehrer -- "New Math")

I know I've mentioned this before, but it bears telling again.

When I was in second grade, our "enlightened" school system took half the kids in our grade and changed their reading/language program to something called ITA. For the next year, they were immersed in books and lessons that used ONLY phonetic spelling.

After a year, they were re-introduced into the regular lesson plan. And as anyone should have expected, they had serious learning problems for quite a while after that.