Do I have to quit?

[dieditor]

My job is how I fund my life. It's not my life. My family comes comes first.

This is EXACTLY how I feel about it. I was engaged to a woman with two little boys. God I loved those kids. They were like my kids, and I learned real quickly that it sucked to miss their school programs, Little League games, etc. because you were covering something else or stuck laying out pages. One of the major reasons we split up was because my schedule made it impossible to have any kind of normal life.

When I met my new Mrs., I swore I'd never make the same mistake again. Found a job with a small business that pays the bills and gives me some time off. Wouldn't look back at all. At least now I know when we have kids I'll know who they are, and they'll know who I am. I respect people who love the grind and consider it a calling, but that's not for me. There's 168 hours in a week, and I'll be damned if I'm going to spend half of them working.

Ever have someone say, "But, they're not YOUR kids" to justify why it shouldn't be as important to you as working? I have. I got a couple of nasty looks once when I said, "I work to live. Not the other way around." I still stand by that.

I constantly heard that. God that pissed me off.

I figured and...I figured. Nothing better than the newsroom big mouth telling you what should be your priority. Journalism's can many times be the ultimate trainwreck relationship. Even when you attempt to maintain a positive attitude you're brought down by the negative attitudes of others, which are usually prevalent.

Isn't it funny how the newsroom "big mouths" are usually the ones who work hard to appear busy, as opposed to actually being busy? And they're the first to criticize your "priorities." How did we go far sideways in the American working world that putting your family first is a negative thing?

 

[User 11148]

Right around the time I was seriously considering getting out, we had hired a guy off a paper that had folded. He had done some pretty good NBA work and was getting sniffs from some big metro dailies. He was married with a kid or two IIRC, but he was seriously enjoying the thought of making the major move up and was pouring on the hours in pursuit of that. I remember him telling me that his wife wasn't too happy about his new priorities, but he'd told her, "I can have another family, but I only get one career." I was in my mid-20s and still single at the time, but even then I was astonished at how effed-up that was.

 

[BitterYoungMatador2]

Right around the time I was seriously considering getting out, we had hired a guy off a paper that had folded. He had done some pretty good NBA work and was getting sniffs from some big metro dailies. He was married with a kid or two IIRC, but he was seriously enjoying the thought of making the major move up and was pouring on the hours in pursuit of that. I remember him telling me that his wife wasn't too happy about his new priorities, but he'd told her, "I can have another family, but I only get one career." I was in my mid-20s and still single at the time, but even then I was astonished at how effed-up that was.

Those are the ones that usually have a hard time accepting reality if they're ever let go.

 

[jr/shotglass]

Right around the time I was seriously considering getting out, we had hired a guy off a paper that had folded. He had done some pretty good NBA work and was getting sniffs from some big metro dailies. He was married with a kid or two IIRC, but he was seriously enjoying the thought of making the major move up and was pouring on the hours in pursuit of that. I remember him telling me that his wife wasn't too happy about his new priorities, but he'd told her, "I can have another family, but I only get one career." I was in my mid-20s and still single at the time, but even then I was astonished at how effed-up that was.

FWIW, I look at it your way. My family comes first with me. But really, there are two sides to this. It's ****ed up to you. It may not be ****ed up to someone else.

How did we go far sideways in the American working world that putting your family first is a negative thing?

The pendulum has swung ... just not in the direction you're claiming.

For a long time, we had those newsroom bullies who shouted down people who took their family responsibilities seriously. But today, you're more likely to find newsroom people who will tell others point-blank that they can't get this or that part of work finished -- because they're doing something with their family.

It's a badge of honor. At one time, it was a source of pride to make it clear in the newsroom that nothing comes before beating the other guy, getting that story. Today, those people have been replaced by folks puffing their chest and telling everyone, "This isn't the most important thing in my life. My family is more important than this."

As much as anything, it's a matter of putting the "other guy" in his/her place. What important to you doesn't have to be important to me, and I'm independent enough that I don't need to put my work first.

And again, I DID come to realize that I'd rather spend time with my wife and family than spend time in the newsroom. But there's a difference between that and becoming the person of whom people say, "Oh, Joe couldn't get that done. He has a wife and kids, you know."

The offshoot of that attitude is the one which says, "Hey, it doesn't matter whether we get something first anymore. We're not going to beat the Internet anyway."

In summary, put your family first. That's a very legitimate decision. Just don't think it makes you any better or any worse than the person in the next cubicle who prioritizes his/her job. And don't deny it, anyone ... many DO think they're on a higher plane because they have they outlook.

 

[LongTimeListener]

In summary, put your family first. That's a very legitimate decision. Just don't think it makes you any better or any worse than the person in the next cubicle who prioritizes his/her job. And don't deny it, anyone ... many DO think they're on a higher plane because they have they outlook.

I think this is for the most part an age-related reaction. I used to think the middle-aged, married-with-kids crowd was jaking it by saying "eh, it's good enough, we'll get 'em tomorrow" and turning the lights off. I was part of a group of people who'd spend all night at the bar bitching about them, in fact. Ten years later I was one of them.

It can come off as superiority, or at least the paternalistic "I was your age once too, young man." But it represents the natural evolution of a person within the business. The best still put everything aside to chase a scoop, but it has to REALLY be worth it because, unlike a decade earlier, by staying at work they're actually missing something they would rather be doing.

There has also been a big shift in the company's loyalty to its workers that comes into play here. Many people have a hard time putting that much effort into a product that their bosses don't care about. This is also something that would be more prevalent among older workers, who remember and lament how things used to be.

 

[jr/shotglass]

This is also something that would be more prevalent among older workers, who remember and lament how things used to be.

Yeah ... yeah ... well ... get off my damn lawn. ;)

 

[I'll never tell]

Sorry for staying gone so long, but after I posted that first message I kind of retracted into my own little corner of the world in attempts to figure out what exactly I wanted.

I think I know, and if it means some view me as too selfish, well, go ahead. But as much as I pour my heart and soul into other people, I want to see it poured back into me.

Before the second or third date -- if I feel like it's even got a chance to go anywhere -- I'll sit them down and have a nice long talk with them. "My job can really suck at times. Fall? Horrible. In the summer, however, I won't do jack for weeks on end, and you'll get tired of me."

They always say, "Oh, I know." That's when I tell them, "No, you really don't. If you're independent, this might work. If you're not, it's been real, and you're a lovely lady, and I wish you the best."

My first wife was the perfect picture of what I thought could work. Independent almost to a fault. Was in real estate, so, she had crazy hours, too, showing houses on Saturdays and random evenings. She made a few friends in town that were coaches wives, and during the fall they'd hang out together calling themselves, "The Football Widows." For Christ sake, they had shirts made at one point.

But I knew it was going down a bad road when I got my first big interview (200K circulation). "I don't like the town," she said. Fair enough. Not two months later, slightly smaller paper ... same deal. "OK," I asked her, "tell me where you WILL go." She gave me an area, I wasn't overly fond of it, but we compromised on the fact that if sports came up there, we'd go. If not, I'd redefine my career toward news. (I'm not totally against that, btw.)

We talked from time to time about kids, but she (and I, too) enjoyed blowing money out our butts whenever we wanted to. Then all of a sudden, a switch flipped. She left right before football season. Was our marriage perfect otherwise? No. But it was the only thing she didn't want to work through. And I know she loved me because she told me she wouldn't let me quit my job, because she knew it'd rip out part of my soul and would never be able to live with herself.

I don't hate her, she doesn't hate me. We still talk from time to time, mainly because we've got the same group of friends, and she always wants to know what's the "off the record" dirt or I heard you ask a question on TV (not that that happens a lot), but it means she still cares, I guess. And she was a college athlete, too, so I always thought that helped.

Some signs, maybe, but she changed before I did.

The new one -- and I swear I was very selective -- was great to begin with. Cool with the job. Cool with the hours. Loved my lazy summer. Then fall, now spring, and maybe I'm just gun shy. We even went so far as to lay things out in great detail ... Marriage and then, her words, after being married for a few years when we start to have kids, you leave sports. I was fine with that compromise.

But now, I feel pissed off because I feel like she's rushing me out of sports before we're even engaged. To me, that's not fair.

I don't like my hours, but it's evident I don't have it as bad as others here do. I'm home three, four nights a week. Some nights there are phone calls, but it's not all that often. If I do anything for myself -- which is the rare round of golf -- I play during the day while she's at work.

I pour myself into the relationship and work my ass off to make up for the times I'm not there. People would not understand the lengths I go to to make the other person's life easier, brighter, go without sleep to wake up at the butt-crack of dawn to go do things she wants to do or go by her house while she's at work to do her laundry or her dishes. The "just because" things I bring her at least every two weeks. And her ex was a piece of crap. I mean at the very least be happy I have a job ... unlike him when they divorced.

I guess what I'm looking for, and am coming to the realization that I may never find, is somebody who sees the world as I do: I love for people to be passionate about things, whatever they may be. Let me be passionate. Be happy and proud that I'm damn good at my career (Much like I thought my first wife was; she once told me, "I'll have a job, and you can have the career.")

I know it can work. I've seen it happen. Two guys I work with are married -- one is just into double-digit years and the other is into a few decades.

I will take to my grave the words that I heard an old sports writer tell me once. He was talking about his wife, who'd passed away some years back and was recalling their wedding day.

"She had no idea when she said, 'I do,' that she was really saying, 'I'll do without,'" he told us.

But she did until her dying day with him still in the business. Hell, his son is in the business. And yeah, you can say that people put up with more **** back then than they do today, or did they just know the real meaning of love? Maybe that's what I'm chasing.

The only marriage in my family I ever saw work was my grandparents. He worked swing shift at a mill for the better part of his working life. Five days on first shift, two off, four on second, three off, four on third, three off. Wash, rinse, repeat. And those two people loved each other like Hollywood writes about.

Maybe I'll never find that, but I pray to God I will. Until then, I'm a ways from 40 and I've got a career I love, and so far, it's loved me back for the better part of 12 years. In that, I'm lucky as hell.

I'm just terrified -- because I've seen my parents and aunts and uncles -- all NOT be journalists and their marriages not work out, either.

Gamble on love and throw away the other? Maybe I'm just too scared of a new one of either. And too selfish.

 

[I'll never tell]

If it's just about you, you're going to have problems.

I really don't think it's just about me. Like I've said in the most recent post, I've been willing to make compromises more than once. Especially when it's the right person.

With the ex-wife, I completely turned down interview requests and one flat-out offer because it wasn't where she wanted to live. I wasn't bitter about that at all, because while that could have really boosted my career, it could have also put me into a situation where I was laid off. Sometimes I think life is just random, sometimes I think things happen for a reason. I never wasted my time wondering which that one was, I just moved on.

With the recent one, it was "I know you love your job, but when we have kids, you have to find something else." Then that changed to, "Forget what I said earlier, I'm sick of this crap already."

I guess my whole beef is this: I lay out in great detail who I am and what I do and what it entails. If they don't like it, no hard feelings. Even if they get into it six months and really get a taste, and don't like it -- again no hard feelings. Why don't they pick up on it before a year and half?

I think men and women alike are guilty of thinking, "Well, I can change him/her." I don't want to change anybody, I couldn't live with the guilt of making someone give up something they liked/loved because of me.

Before the woman I'm currently with came along, there was this old flame who I ran into. She's a great girl, but now she's in AA. She told me that on the fourth date, the first time we met my friends at the bar. Said she didn't want it to be a factor, because she was strong enough for it not to be a problem.

I ended it that night. First, with as much as we talked before we ever went out, that should have come up. Second, I couldn't imagine putting her in that situation whether she claimed to be strong or not. What if she slipped? I would have looked at that as much my fault as anybody.

I don't look down on her in the least bit. I admire her for realizing that she's just not the kind of person that can just have three beers and be OK. But I also realize that a relationship under those circumstances would not work. Does that make me selfish because I should give up adult beverages, too? I hope not.

I hope it just means some people aren't meant for each other, and you have to keep looking. One day you'll either find that right person or give up and get a bunch of cats.

 

[93Devil]

If you think a job gives you the rush of highs and lows, it is 1/1000th the rushes parenthood gives you.

Take it from a guy who wrote and was a classroom teacher.

If you can, try parenthood, then see how cool a job is.

 

[Shoeless Joe]

I think I might have been the first one the chime in and say family before job, but I also don't like the fact that she's dictating terms as in "but when we have kids, you have to find something else."

That's not a family/job issue. That's someone trying to change who you are.

 

[Seahawk]

I think I might have been the first one the chime in and say family before job, but I also don't like the fact that she's dictating terms as in "but when we have kids, you have to find something else."

That's not a family/job issue. That's someone trying to change who you are.

This jumped out to me as well. Just doesn't seem like a healthy stance.

 

[copperpot]

I think I might have been the first one the chime in and say family before job, but I also don't like the fact that she's dictating terms as in "but when we have kids, you have to find something else."

That's not a family/job issue. That's someone trying to change who you are.

This jumped out to me as well. Just doesn't seem like a healthy stance.

The other thing that jumped out to me is that he says he's doing so much to make up for the time he's not there. When my husband and I got married, I was reporting and he was editing, so we worked different shifts. And one of the things I said on the altar was, "Even though we work different shifts, we make the most of the time we have together." That's huge. Sounds like he's trying and that's still not enough for her.

 

[User 11148]

Let me just say that, from experience, when you have children it changes "who you are" whether you're the he or the she. Perhaps she's simply already aware of that.

 

[tripleoption34]

I've seen many a relationship/marriage flame out in 20 years of doing this, including two of my own.

I had a 16-year relationship end because she simply stopped fighting the schedule and demands of my job. In her words, she "was tired of being 1A" despite my efforts to make things work. Bouncing between reporter and copy desk person took a toll on me, so I can't begin to imagine what it must have been like for her. We remain very good friends to this day; in fact, our relationship is infinitely better now than it ever was the last 12-18 months we dated.

The lesson I learned is balance. Yes, you can have a productive professional and personal life, but it requires work and understanding on both sides, especially yours. Your off days have to be her/his day. You have to be willing to work on the relationship and maximize the time you and your partner have together.

I'm fortunate to have met someone who has helped me learn from my past mistakes. We've hit the six-month mark, and have yet to have a dispute surrounding my schedule. My time with her on days off is such that she cherishes those moments on days where work keeps me busy. On her end, she makes me feel comfortable and encouraging on rough days and takes an interest in the ins and outs of the field.

Don't know how much my words helped, but hope someone can gather something out of my past travails.

 

[Rumpleforeskin]

If you can, try parenthood, then see how cool a job is.

Problem is, you can't just TRY parenthood.

 

[Buck]

A woman marries a man thinking she'll change him, but she never can.
A man marries a woman hoping she'll never change, but she always does.