Cy Young=15-12, 21, 2.42

[goalmouth]

That, dear friends, was Mike Marshall's stat line when he became the first reliever to win the Cy Young in 1974. I was just a stripling then, can some of the old heads here break it down for me? How in hell does a reliever get 27 decisions?

 

[Steak Snabler]

He pitched in 106 games and threw 208.1 innings. That will do it.

 

[Chef2]

I loved watching Garber, but losing 16 games out of the pen in 79......egads.

 

[Elliotte Friedman]

I loved watching Garber, but losing 16 games out of the pen in 79......egads.

Hey man, he ended Pete Rose's 44-game hit streak by refusing to throw a fastball while Rose screamed for one. All good with me.

 

[Chef2]

Hey man, he ended Pete Rose's 44-game hit streak by refusing to throw a fastball while Rose screamed for one. All good with me.

I'm good with that.

 

[Neutral Corner]

The role of the reliever was very different in '74. Hell, I don't think the "setup man" had even been invented yet.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

The role of the reliever was very different in '74. Hell, I don't think the "setup man" had even been invented yet.

The A's had the best bullpen of that era and they used Knowles and Fingers for multiple innings and closer depended on lefty-righty matchups. Hell, in Game One of the '74 Series, Catfish Hunter came in for the last out

 

[Neutral Corner]

I guess the set-up man/closer didn't develop until, what, the early 90's? It was in effect for sure by the mid 90's with Mariano Rivera and Wetteland.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

Maybe we're headed back to where relievers end up with a W-L record like that, if we continue to see starters going less than the obligatory five innings. Not a closer, but why not a middle reliever who consistently come in the 4th, 5th, 6th innings and walks away with a ton of decisions. Maybe those are the 20 game winners of the future, instead of the complete game starters of the past.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Hey man, he ended Pete Rose's 44-game hit streak by refusing to throw a fastball while Rose screamed for one. All good with me.

I don't know what the situation of the at-bat was (score, men on base, etc.), but who could have blamed Garber if he'd told Rose, "OK, here comes a fastball," and then drill him right in the back.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

I guess the set-up man/closer didn't develop until, what, the early 90's? It was in effect for sure by the mid 90's with Mariano Rivera and Wetteland.

La Russa with Eckersley is generally credited/blamed for the change.

 

[qtlaw]

La Russa with Eckersley is generally credited/blamed for the change.

LaRussa IIRC was the first to go with the by the book 7th (Gene Nelson)/8th (Honeycutt?, should know the lefty)/9th inning (Eck)guys; then he got beat by the Nasty Boys triumvirate. But the Swinging A's with Fingers, Knowles, Lindblad were almost setup/closer guys. Up until LaRussa though, the relievers were basically guys who couldn't make it as starters and were kinda like fillers. At most it was looked at as a 2 man combo gang. Giants in 1982-3 had the lefty Al Holland/righty Greg Minton combo.

 

[cyclingwriter2]

I don't think they had a set order like we know today, but the 1979 Cubs had Bruce Sutter as closer with set up men including Bill Claudil, Willie Hernandez and Donnie Moore. All three would become all star closers by the mid 1980s. **** Tidrow was also in the pen, and he was a very good setup man.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

In that A's bullpen, Fingers was the acknowledged ace, but that meant he pitched more innings, too. Knowles got saves sometimes when Fingers would pitch the eighth and two-thirds of the ninth, then Knowles would come in to face a lefty. It was an entirely different way of thinking about relief pitching.

 

[cjericho]

I don't think they had a set order like we know today, but the 1979 Cubs had Bruce Sutter as closer with set up men including Bill Claudil, Willie Hernandez and Donnie Moore. All three would become all star closers by the mid 1980s. **** Tidrow was also in the pen, and he was a very good setup man.

That's a pretty good pen. Hernandez and Moore both had 30-save seasons.

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

LaRussa IIRC was the first to go with the by the book 7th (Gene Nelson)/8th (Honeycutt?, should know the lefty)/9th inning (Eck)guys; then he got beat by the Nasty Boys triumvirate. But the Swinging A's with Fingers, Knowles, Lindblad were almost setup/closer guys. Up until LaRussa though, the relievers were basically guys who couldn't make it as starters and were kinda like fillers. At most it was looked at as a 2 man combo gang. Giants in 1982-3 had the lefty Al Holland/righty Greg Minton combo.

Greg Cadaret was the first 8th inning lefty used by LaRussa but he lost his job to Honeycutt, who was converted to reliever at age 34 and extended his career by another nine years.

 

[manky_jimy]

 

[Shropshire Slasher]

The “We Are Family” Pirates of the late 70s had somewhat of an arrangement where Grant Jackson and Enrique Romo would set up Kent Tekulve in the ninth. Maybe not in definitive roles, but I know those 3 guys made a ton of appearances.

 

[Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!!]

By the late 70s and 80s many teams had "closers," as opposed to "firemen."

I'd give Larussa credit for the modern bastardization of baseball with the set up, and saves guys, but closers were well established by the late 80s.

 

[Guy_Incognito]

By the late 70s and 80s many teams had "closers," as opposed to "firemen."

I'd give Larussa credit for the modern bastardization of baseball with the set up, and saves guys, but closers were well established by the late 80s.

I don't think this is true. They were giving out fireman of the year, and the word closer was not prevalent iirc. The usage switched by then with the popularity of the save stat, if that's what you mean.