Chipper: steroid cloud will follow A-Rod

[gingerbread]

Chipper Jones says steroid questions will follow A-Rod, and A-Rod needs to answer them.
God, I need sleep.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/08/09/2007-08-09_atlantas_chip_shot_at_arod.html

 

[The Big Ragu]

Let someone bring anything near the evidence of A-Rod's use that we have of Bonds' use, and the questions are legit. I think given what happened to baseball with drugs entering the game, ANY question of ANY player is legit. Performance-enhancing drugs are clearly a part of the game. And these are just questions--natural questions given the environment in the sport. It should be an easy "yes, I did it," or "no, I didn't," answer.

It would be patently unfair, though, to just assume A-Rod used. It's not like there are doping schedules, a shady personal trainer who was a known supplier who is sitting in jail because is protecting A-Rod, a shady drug dealer who was supplying drugs to dozens of athletes, and A-Rods name popped up all over his files, A-Rod doing ads for body building magazines for him, etc. There isn't the grand jury testimony of A-Rod in which he fumphers around and states the ridiculous. And there haven't been the kinds of physical changes in A-Rod that make use a no-brainer for anyone with eyes. He bulked up last year (also slimmed down this year), but it was nothing like Bonds in 1999 when he showed up at spring training and teammates were like, "WTF?" and calling him the Incredible Hulk (Bonds has only gotten bigger since then, particularly after Greg Anderson hooked up with Victor Conte). Plus, A-Rod has pretty much hit the tar out of the ball since he was in his teens, with a skinny, but athletic body. It isn't like he had one career and then after the age of 35, he had a second super-human career.

Did A-Rod use? Who knows. My guess would be no (and I could be WAY wrong). But Chipper Jones is way off. Barry Bonds being under a cloud of suspicion ISN'T just a product of his breaking the record. There is ridiculous evidence that he used and that it had a pronounced effect on his performance in his late 30s and early 40s. So he wouldn't own the record without that use. Show any amount of similar, compelling evidence that paints such a complete picture of use related to A-Rod, and then maybe Jones has a right to spout off about him.

But no, they are not the same thing, not given what we know today.

 

[cranberry]

PEDs have been part of sports forever and, in some form, always will be. What we seem to lack is understanding and a sense of perspective. Probably because personalities come into play and the discussion immediately goes from clinical to emotional. Feigned outrage doesn't cut it, though. I thought this Sally Jenkins column was one of the better ones I've seen recently on the topic:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/02/AR2007080202497.html

 

[JC]

Please do not use the change in physical appearance line. Does Nefi Perez or guys in the Tour De France look like they've taken steroids?
Do I think A-Rod has taken them? I have no idea, but the era he plays in means this will follow him fair or not

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Ragu --
Sorry.
The "Bonds Created The Suspicion" -- aka "It's The Era." -- argument is journalistically unsound and morally obtuse. You are NOT REQUIRED to believe on suspicion. Nobody in this business is obligated to become part of a drug hysteria. Believe it when you see the evidence, and Chipper Jones should spend more time knocking up waitresses and less time running his mouth.

 

[spnited]

Perez tested positive for "a stimulant" (amphetamine), not steroids.

 

[hockeybeat]

I think ARod is an unfaithful husband and image-conscious. I don't think ARod is a steroid user. I do think by dragging the Yankees' third baseman's name into the steroid story, Canseco is trying to guarantee sales of his new book.

 

[Football_Bat]

Yankees-Braves will be a treat in this year's World Series.

 

[novelist_wannabe]

No doubt some NY reporter asked him his thoughts about the Canseco/A-Rod thing. He's a fairly stand-up guy, so he didn't duck the question. And Chipper is absolutely right. He's not saying A-Rod juiced. He's saying he'll be hounded about it whether he juiced or not. The underlying idea is that every major league player is now under suspicion. No amount of testing or investigating by George Mitchell is going to change that.

I'm just waiting for the day when some reporter asks Chipper about his diet and exercise routine between the 1998 and 1999 seasons. I'm not saying he used PEDs, but it's a fact that he gained weight and added muscle between October 1998 and February, 1999. Up until 1998, he hit gangbusters up until about the middle of August and then faded down the stretch. So he added some strength to help him maintain his production through the complete season. I think he's clean, but how can we really know? Chipper himself may end up under the same cloud, though it won't be because he's chasing the all-time home run record. Bottom line is everybody is under suspicion.

Is any of that fair? No. But it's the way it is.

 

[spnited]

Once again, the tab headlines make this look like more than it is.

Chipper apparently was asked if there would be questions about A-Rod and steroids if he got close to Bonds' record and basically said, yes there will be questions about a lot of people, himself included



"There's going to be the questions because his name's been brought up," Jones told the Associated Press before last night's game at Shea. "If I had to pose a guess on A-Rod, I would say no. But I don't know. He's going to have to answer the questions. And that goes for everybody that approaches the number. It's just so farfetched, the numbers that those guys are putting up. And a lot of it comes from the era that they're playing in."


"Because I'm playing in the steroid era. Everything that I do is going to be judged. It's the same with a lot of good ballplayers that have put up a lot of good numbers in this era that did it the right way.
"Time is going to tell for a lot of people, until this Mitchell investigation is complete. And it's not just (Bonds and Rodriguez), but they're the poster children because they are the two best players in the game, or have been. It's inevitable. It's just the way things are now."

 

[terrier]

Oh. Chipper's probably jealous that A-Rod got some tail the fellow philanderers were eyeballing.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

No doubt some NY reporter asked him his thoughts about the Canseco/A-Rod thing. He's a fairly stand-up guy, so he didn't duck the question. And Chipper is absolutely right. He's not saying A-Rod juiced. He's saying he'll be hounded about it whether he juiced or not. The underlying idea is that every major league player is now under suspicion. No amount of testing or investigating by George Mitchell is going to change that.

I'm just waiting for the day when some reporter asks Chipper about his diet and exercise routine between the 1998 and 1999 seasons. I'm not saying he used PEDs, but it's a fact that he gained weight and added muscle between October 1998 and February, 1999. Up until 1998, he hit gangbusters up until about the middle of August and then faded down the stretch. So he added some strength to help him maintain his production through the complete season. I think he's clean, but how can we really know? Chipper himself may end up under the same cloud, though it won't be because he's chasing the all-time home run record. Bottom line is everybody is under suspicion.

Is any of that fair? No. But it's the way it is.

It doesn't have to be the way it is.
Nobody in this business -- or even in the sports blowhard business, which is different -- is obligated to hound people based on suspicion and nothing else. We choose to do that, usually for bull**** reasons. We aren't feathers in the wind here.

 

[shockey]

a-rod, at 21, hit 36 homers in '96, well before the alleged start of the steroid rage. his numbers thereafter were not out of whack for a man with his skills. hard to see where "steroid use" has been a factor for him, imo. 8) 8)

 

[outofplace]

No doubt some NY reporter asked him his thoughts about the Canseco/A-Rod thing. He's a fairly stand-up guy, so he didn't duck the question. And Chipper is absolutely right. He's not saying A-Rod juiced. He's saying he'll be hounded about it whether he juiced or not. The underlying idea is that every major league player is now under suspicion. No amount of testing or investigating by George Mitchell is going to change that.

I'm just waiting for the day when some reporter asks Chipper about his diet and exercise routine between the 1998 and 1999 seasons. I'm not saying he used PEDs, but it's a fact that he gained weight and added muscle between October 1998 and February, 1999. Up until 1998, he hit gangbusters up until about the middle of August and then faded down the stretch. So he added some strength to help him maintain his production through the complete season. I think he's clean, but how can we really know? Chipper himself may end up under the same cloud, though it won't be because he's chasing the all-time home run record. Bottom line is everybody is under suspicion.

Is any of that fair? No. But it's the way it is.

It doesn't have to be the way it is.
Nobody in this business -- or even in the sports blowhard business, which is different -- is obligated to hound people based on suspicion and nothing else. We choose to do that, usually for bull**** reasons. We aren't feathers in the wind here.

True....but somebody did ask the question and he hasn't really answered it.

Is it unfair? Absolutely. But it's the reality. This will not go away until Rodriguez says that he has not used steroids. Even then, it might not disappear. Thank the guys who did cheat for creating the current climate.

We're not feathers in the wind, but we can't stick our heads in the sand, either.

It's like the George Steinbrenner story. The reporter used unethical means to get close to Steinbrenner. No doubt. But that isn't really the story. The story is whether or not the owner of the most powerful sports franchise in the United States has lost it or not. It is sad and unfair, but people want to know. Hide behind the ethical discussion all you want, but the information matters to the readers a hell of a lot more than how we acquire it.

 

[cranberry]

Perez tested positive for "a stimulant" (amphetamine), not steroids.

Right, but the point remains that an athlete who uses steroids isn't necessarily big. The first major-league steroid suspension was given to 5-foot-8, 155-pound Alex Sanchez who had six home runs in five seasons and was known primarily for his ability to bunt and run.

Is it unfair? Absolutely. But it's the reality. This will not go away until Rodriguez says that he has not used steroids. Even then, it might not disappear. Thank the guys who did cheat for creating the current climate.

We're not feathers in the wind, but we can't stick our heads in the sand, either.

So outofplace, it sounds like you're saying that a journalist's sense of ethics must go out the window because someone else or some other publication leads the way? Why don't we just make the NYPost the national newspaper and be done with it, then?

It's up to every individual journalist to act ethically and responsibly. The steroids zealots have already marginalized themselves and I'm happy not to be one of them.

 

[lantaur]

PEDs have been part of sports forever and, in some form, always will be. What we seem to lack is understanding and a sense of perspective. Probably because personalities come into play and the discussion immediately goes from clinical to emotional. Feigned outrage doesn't cut it, though. I thought this Sally Jenkins column was one of the better ones I've seen recently on the topic:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/02/AR2007080202497.html

Sorry, she lost me in the beginning when she tried to compare what soldiers do to athletes.

Oh, and Canseco never said A-Rod did steroids. He said he's not like he portrays himself to be. I think it has more to do with his philandering than anything else. Not Mr. Clean Cut. Not exactly news since there have been stories about Mr. & Mrs. A-Rod going to swinger clubs and A-Rod out with a stripper.

 

[steveu]

And that is what I wish today's media would understand. What New York's players did in the 1950s and 1960s was 10 times worse than A-Rod dallying around with a stripper.

 

[cranberry]

PEDs have been part of sports forever and, in some form, always will be. What we seem to lack is understanding and a sense of perspective. Probably because personalities come into play and the discussion immediately goes from clinical to emotional. Feigned outrage doesn't cut it, though. I thought this Sally Jenkins column was one of the better ones I've seen recently on the topic:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/02/AR2007080202497.html

Sorry, she lost me in the beginning when she tried to compare what soldiers do to athletes.

Jenkins made a great point about how we've decided to hold athletes to a higher moral standard than our military. FYI, most anecdotal evidence suggests that amphetamines became popular in baseball (probably a lot of sports) when players returned from WWII and Korea.

 

[spnited]

So Chipper hit about a 500-foot home run today. Should the first question to him be "have you ever taken steroids?"

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

So Chipper hit about a 500-foot home run today. Should the first question to him be "have you ever taken steroids?"

Yes, because "that's the way it is."
I love -- L-O-V-E -- the argument that the accusation "will follow" A-Rod until he denies it, then it will stop, unless, of course, it doesn't.
Wonderful, Journalism as spray paint.
I, for one, have more lateral movement now that I've jettisoned my professional conscience.