Changing venues

[Sam Mills 51]

I don’t know what it’s like for the rich people in boxes but the new Meadowlands Stadium sucks. Unimaginative design. Lousy concessions, sauerkraut on a hotdog is the height of their cuisine . Cramped narrow seats. Maybe the amenities for the players is awesome but foe the fans it’s a generic experience in New Jersey.

Have heard that the new facility was soulless. For the money spent, it doesn't seem like an impressive return on investment.

 

[heyabbott]

Have heard that the new facility was soulless. For the money spent, it doesn't seem like an impressive return on investment.

Giants are sold out, that’s 10 full price expensive sellouts, PSLs and $25 parking. And there’s no choice but to park. Jets sold out?
20 sellouts. It’s printing money as long as the team doesn’t dive for a prolonged period of time. See Washington.

 

[FileNotFound]

The Bucs went from perennial joke to annual playoff threat (and Super Bowl champion) when they moved from The Big Sombrero to Raymond James Stadium in the late ‘90s. I was never sure whether it was the new stadium or the simultaneous ditching of the creamsicle uniforms that made the difference.

 

[Batman]

The Bucs went from perennial joke to annual playoff threat (and Super Bowl champion) when they moved from The Big Sombrero to Raymond James Stadium in the late ‘90s. I was never sure whether it was the new stadium or the simultaneous ditching of the creamsicle uniforms that made the difference.

Guessing the hiring of a Hall of Fame coach, and then hitting on two Hall of Famers in the first round of the 1995 draft and two more of the best players in franchise history in the 1997 draft also had something to do with it.

That's the funny thing with a lot of these moves that ushered in great eras, is that the moves seemed to coincide with when a struggling franchise finally got its act together in a lot of other areas.
The Phillies moved in the early 70s, and then again in the early 2000s, right about the time their stockpiled minor league talent was ready for the majors.
The Seahawks moved from mediocrity to contender when Qwest Field opened in 2002, but it was also right about the time Mike Holmgren's rebuilding plan was starting to bear fruit.
The Buccaneers drafted Warren Sapp and Derrick Brooks the year before they hired Tony Dungy.
The Lakers moved into Staples Center the same year Phil Jackson came on board with Shaq at his peak and Kobe just entering his prime.
The Patriots won a Super Bowl their last season at Foxboro and became a dynasty at Gillette.

It's hard to figure out if some of those are just coincidences, the result of long-term plans coming to fruition, or what.

 

[Sam Mills 51]

The Bucs went from perennial joke to annual playoff threat (and Super Bowl champion) when they moved from The Big Sombrero to Raymond James Stadium in the late ‘90s. I was never sure whether it was the new stadium or the simultaneous ditching of the creamsicle uniforms that made the difference.

Both. Saw a football game in person at the old Sombrero. Uniforms were ... interesting. What few fans there weren't involved.

It was nothing more than Hugh Culverhouse's stealth moneymaking dream. Not one cent put into the product (see also: Brown family in Cincinnati).

 

[wicked]

Batman, Foxboro was cursed. And a dump. They tried to flush all the toilets at once before it opened and I gather it was a Dumpster fire.

The Patriots situation also could’ve gone the other way totally had Mo Lewis not knocked Drew Bledsoe and his $100 million contract into Bolivion.

That might be a good question. Which injury has led to the largest changes in fortune for any franchise? The Patriots probably don’t win one title with Bledsoe as a starter, never mind six.

 

[maumann]

Trying to describe going to a baseball game in June or July at Candlestick? Imagine sitting for three-plus hours inside a walk-in freezer turned to its lowest setting with industrial strength fans blowing at maximum speed. While keeping score and having hot dog wrappers randomly hitting you in the face.

For a DAY game, you'd have to pack the same clothes you'd wear in January to ski at Lake Tahoe (15 minutes away). The difference in temperature from Contra Costa County 30 miles inland from the 'Stick might be as much as 50 degrees some times, not counting the ever-present fog bank and the wind. Walnut Creek - 99, South San Francisco - 49.

Oh, and how the wind swirled in that dark, dingy concrete toilet bowl of a stadium. There wasn't one seat I ever found where you wouldn't be subjected to it, not even the press box. Upper deck. Lower deck. Third base side. First base side. The Green Bay-Dallas Ice Bowl was "shorts weather" compared to a Giants night game that went extra innings. And yet, September and October can be glorious weather there because the wind and fog retreat in the fall.

And I was told it was even worse before they brought the fences in and bowled in the left field stands.

(Not to mention Hunter's Point was the worst neighborhood in The City. Not a great place to have car trouble after the game. And getting from the Bay Bridge to the Embarcadero Freeway there, not fun. Especially going the other way in rush hour traffic.)

 

[maumann]

The Blue Jays' fortunes improved considerably - both on the field and at the gate - when they moved from the Ex to the SkyDome. The dome's location and ease of accessibility - unlike the Ex - changed the whole neighbourhood downtown.

And yet the Expos lost a lot of their charm leaving Parc Jerry for overpriced, underwhelming Stade Olympique. At the time, Jerry Park was the only MLB stadium where a long homer could land in a public pool.

 

[maumann]

The Lions went from Tiger Stadium to the Pontiac Silverdome to Ford Field and ... well, hell. Scratch that one off.

 

[Shropshire Slasher]

Colorado Avalanche won a Stanley Cup immediately after leaving Quebec.

 

[da man]

And yet the Expos lost a lot of their charm leaving Parc Jerry for overpriced, underwhelming Stade Olympique. At the time, Jerry Park was the only MLB stadium where a long homer could land in a public pool.

Jarry.

 

[Batman]

Batman, Foxboro was cursed. And a dump. They tried to flush all the toilets at once before it opened and I gather it was a Dumpster fire.

The Patriots situation also could’ve gone the other way totally had Mo Lewis not knocked Drew Bledsoe and his $100 million contract into Bolivion.

That might be a good question. Which injury has led to the largest changes in fortune for any franchise? The Patriots probably don’t win one title with Bledsoe as a starter, never mind six.

I know no one is singing odes to Foxboro, and the general consensus was that it was the dumpiest of dumps. But they did break whatever curse existed there with the Tuck Rule game.

As for the injury question, Bledsoe and the Pats is the obvious leader in the NFL clubhouse.

Drew Brees is another great one. The Saints might not be in New Orleans now, let alone one of the dominant teams of the last 15 years, if he doesn't get hurt in his last game at San Diego. Plus it gets bonus points for keeping the Dolphins irrelevant and chasing Nick Saban back to college football, and all of the effects that has had on the college game as well as the NFL.

Peyton Manning's neck injury was another one that had ripple effects. I don't know how much it changed the Colts' fortunes -- Luck's career arc probably follows about what Peyton would have done in his latter years had he stayed healthy and in Indy -- but it led to the Broncos winning a Super Bowl.
Joe Montana's injury in 1990 had similar effects for the 49ers and Chiefs. The 49ers were able to move on to Steve Young, won another Super Bowl, and remained an NFC power for the rest of the 1990s. The Chiefs wound up with an aging but still capable QB who gave them a couple of good years and almost got them to a Super Bowl.

 

[ChrisLong]

I'm just having a hard time believing that changing a venue has anything more than minimal affect for a baseball team.
Exception: Giants.

 

[MTM]

Trent Green’s injury led to Kurt Warner starting for the Rams and the Greatest Show on Turf.

On the coaching side, Jack McKinney’s bike accident when he was coach of the Lakers brought Pat Riley out of the announcers booth as an assistant and eventually head coach.

 

[Sea Bass]

I'm just having a hard time believing that changing a venue has anything more than minimal affect for a baseball team.
Exception: Giants.

I don’t know. I don’t think think the Jays were ever to going to get Morris/Winfield/Stewart/Molitor to sign if they played at the Ex.

 

[MileHigh]

Trent Green’s injury led to Kurt Warner starting for the Rams and the Greatest Show on Turf.

On the coaching side, Jack McKinney’s bike accident when he was coach of the Lakers brought Pat Riley out of the announcers booth as an assistant and eventually head coach.

Rams moved from Anaheim to St. Louis and won a Super Bowl and got to a second. Moved from St. Louis to Inglewood and got to a Super Bowl.

 

[Songbird]

Inglewood

Born in Inglewood and have yet to thrive in all ensuing venues.

 

[Starman]

I'm just having a hard time believing that changing a venue has anything more than minimal affect for a baseball team.
Exception: Giants.

In baseball I think it certainly can have a significant impact, since park effects are quite clearly a factor in how teams are constructed or play.

But I think most baseball stadium moves are usually accompanied by new management regimes which often dramatically change franchises' operational philosophies: for example the Tigers moved from golden age bandbox Tiger Stadium to 21st Century retro replica Comerica Park, which at least initially had a National League-influenced interior design with yawning cavernous outfield dimensions.

At least in theory the Tigers operational brain trust at the time, NL born and bred John McHale and Randy Smith, wanted to remold the franchise as a pitching-and-defense slap-hitting low budget operation rather than have to bid big money for sluggers.

But of course they were also in the middle of a 20-year penny pinching payroll cutting enterprise, so they didn't have any talent to win whether they were in an old style power hitters paradise or a newly built Grand Canyon nirvana for pitchers.

 

[Octave]

The Tigers were once projected (2008, I think) to score 1,000 runs. That's a well-built team for that ballpark.

A lot of it is just coincidence. Part of a team being longtime bad was the ballpark to which it was married.

 

[ChrisLong]

I was probably wrong about this for baseball. I was thinking more of pitch-catch-hit-throw. Not attracting free agents. Bad on me.
As for the Rams, they could have had equal success in Anaheim as they had in St. Louis if they spent to promote the franchise and improve the team. But Georgia wanted her hoo-hoo licked by St. Louis and got paid for it. That simple.