Car Shopping

[HeinekenMan]

I'm just getting started with the car shopping experience. I'm looking for advice from people who own or know something about several vehicles. The particulars of my situation are that we're a family of four. Both kids are young. One requires a car seat and the other a booster. The wife can't drive a manual. We are to the point where we want a comfortable ride with lots of room without the big price tag. The vehicles I'm considering include:

Subaru Outback, Nissan Xterra, Dodge Nitro, Dodge Magnum, Toyota RAV4, Jeep Liberty and Grand Cherokee, minivans, Honda Accord.

The Outback is nice. I saw a mention of it on another thread. but I want something with power this time. I had a Corolla, and it was slow as hell. The V6 Outback is just out of my price range, so I'm wondering whether the 4-banger has some power. If so, I'm wondering about the ride and cornering.

I pretty much see the RAV4, Xterra, Liberty and Nitro in the same light. My primary concern is that these cars are prone to rollovers and generally poor handling in corners. I'm researching this now. To me, they look like car tires on a truck with a narrow wheel base and narrow tires. I have this same concern regarding minivans, and I think they're particularly dangerous because their abundance of windows and lack of steel framing cause the tops to cave in. I've already seen a few sites that suggest a wagon, and I'm leaning that way, particularly now that there are some fairly sporty wagon options.

That said, I like the room and the body styling in the smaller SUVs.

The Magnum is just something I've considered. I can't afford the quick ones, but I'd be willing to buy a stripped-down model if it's a decent car. I'm throwing in the Accord because it's considered one of the top cars to buy by most publications year in and year out. I've never been in one, and I'm concerned about room.

And feel free to suggest other vehicles. Lord knows there are tons of options these days.

 

[Big Buckin' agate_monkey]

Good luck. Car shopping is a pain.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Magnums are quite fun to drive. But only if you get the bigger engine. It's pointless to get a stripped down version of it. If you're considering that, just go with the Outback.

You should seriously consider the Jeeps. I've owned four now (72 Wagoneer, 90 Cherokee, 99 Cherokee and 06 Wrangler) and never had any serious problems. The Liberty and Cherokee both have room for four adults comfortably and can handle luggage for all four.

 

[Lugnuts]

I really didn't want to do the SUV thing... We looked at wagons, crossovers, sedans and SUVs...

Ended up with the Highlander Hybrid, a small SUV on a car chassis, I believe.

Highlander Hybrid was just voted #1 small SUV by Consumer Reports.

I was pretty surprised by the "pick up" of the hybrid.

Also, something that might help you... Either Parents or Parenting magazine just did a big write up on the safest cars. It had info on rollovers.

 

[HeinekenMan]

Wow. Great info already. Thanks a bunch.

I'll take a look at the Highlander and take another look at the Jeeps. I've yet to go to a dealership, so that'll be an entirely separate step in the process. I checked out carmax, and I found it to offer great savings. Selection wasn't great, but I'm thinking of taking that route if I pick a car they have in stock simply because they have a low price.

 

[HeinekenMan]

I'm comparing horsepower now. I've discovered that my Corolla had a 125-horsepower motor. The basic Outback has a 175-horsepower 4-cylinder motor. To my surprise, a V6 guarantees nothing when it comes to power. A basic Magnum has just 190 horsepower under its hood. Of course, that goes up to 425 horsepower as you climb the price ladder. I'm not sure what is acceptable, but I think something with 175 would probably suffice for now. 200 would be even better.

 

[rallen13]

One bit of advice that has nothing to do with what you choose. Buy on the last day of the month and do it from the salesman who rushes out to meet you the quickest. He will be the one farthest from quota and most needing to make a sale. The last day of the month is when you will get the best deal from the dealership since they are on manufacturers quota fo the month. Also, ask for the price WITHOUT trade-in. Once you have the figure, then ask what it would be WITH trade-in. These hints were in Consumer's Digest a few years back. One other thing. I see from your sign-in name that you are a male. If you weren't, you should take a male with you, even if it just a friend (don't identify him as such). Let him ask the questions you want answered. Car salesmen truly do think women are the easier sell.

 

[BTExpress]

IMO, there are two basic car-buying decisions:

1. Japanese.

2. Mistakes.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Rallen, I grew up at the Dodge dealership my father ran. Some of that info works. But it's not a sure bet.

Yes, the salesman rushing to meet you on the 31st might be needing to make his quota. But that could work against you as well. If he's not hit his quota, he might not cut you the best deal because he'll need to make extra on the deal to payback any money he's drawn from the dealership.

A guy who's sold 30 vehicles might be more inclined to get less on commission at that point, because he's made his month already. To him, anything on the 31st is pure bonus. So he might be willing to only make $150 on the deal instead of $750.

And always avoid the extended warranty. Dealerships will always try to get you on the back end of a deal with that.

 

[HeinekenMan]

rallen, you are beautiful. You just caused a spark in my previously dormant brain.

I have been fretting because, with the main family car totaled last week, we only have a '98 Cavalier in serious disrepair. I was thinking of buying new and then leasing a second car when the Cavalier dies. Now, though, I see that I can trade the Cavalier, add the money I get from the insurance company and bring my monthly loan payment way down.

On top of that, I can go all summer with one car because I work from home and my wife has the summer off. We'll be together most of the time. So I won't even need to think about a second car until August. Then I can figure out whether I want to buy a new or used car or lease one.

 

[Rosie]

Car salesmen truly do think women are the easier sell.

And I use this against them each and every time! I'm the one who gets to purchase vehicles in our household. :D

 

[heyabbott]

IMO, there are two basic car-buying decisions:

1. Japanese.

2. Mistakes.

100% correct.

Just bought a 2007 Toyota Camry 6 weeks ago. Love it. We have an '05 Highlander, love it. If you can spend it and want a very good AWD vehicle, wait until the '08 Highlanders come out, they are going to be great. We've owned 4 Toyotas, 3 Nissans, 1 Isuzu, 1 Mercedes (a handme down) and a Dodge MiniVan. Every one of them lasted well over 100K with no major problems except the Dodge, which blew a head gasket at 62K and a transmission at 66K.

**** YOU DETROIT

 

[rallen13]

Be sure to read Inky_Wretch's comments too. My suggestions, as he says, are not always perfect, but you never know if it might help you. Worth a try.

 

[sportschick]

Ask OTD for car buying tips. IIRC, he used to sell cars. You should check out the Honda CRV too. It's a small SUV (about the size of the RAV4). Most of friends out here have one b/c they can't afford subarus yet.

 

[Ace]

IMO, there are two basic car-buying decisions:

1. Japanese.

2. Mistakes.

100% correct.

Just bought a 2007 Toyota Camry 6 weeks ago. Love it. We have an '05 Highlander, love it. If you can spend it and want a very good AWD vehicle, wait until the '08 Highlanders come out, they are going to be great. We've owned 4 Toyotas, 3 Nissans, 1 Isuzu, 1 Mercedes (a handme down) and a Dodge MiniVan. Every one of them lasted well over 100K with no major problems except the Dodge, which blew a head gasket at 62K and a transmission at 66K.

**** YOU DETROIT

I disagree. I think everyone is making better cars these days. If you can't get 100,000 miles out of your engine, you have a real lemon or you might try changing your oil.

 

[OTD]

Ask OTD for car buying tips. IIRC, he used to sell cars. You should check out the Honda CRV too. It's a small SUV (about the size of the RAV4). Most of friends out here have one b/c they can't afford subarus yet.

When have a minute, I'll try to search for a post a made a while back that had a few tips in it.

 

[cranberry]

I'd like one of these with the hemi engine:

 

[OTD]

I found what I'd posted. I'll flesh it out a little bit.

First of all, if you have a relationship with a credit union, apply for a loan there before you go in. It'll probably be the best deal, and it will give you some bargaining power when they try to give you a loan (more on that later).

Also, check sites like Edmunds.com which will tell you how much cars like the one you want are selling for.

When you go to the dealer, allow yourself all day. Don't go in at 10 if you have to be at work by 2. You will make a mistake.

The best way to buy a car is to negotiate the price of the new car first (NOT by payments, by the bottom-line price of the car). THEN, deal with the trade-in. When the salesman asks how much can you afford a month, be evasive. Don't give him a monthly payment--you're hosed then. He'll then ask you if you're willing to buy the car today for the list price plus whatever markups they've got on it. One-word answer: "No." Let him stew, then he'll ask something like "What will it take to get you to buy this car today?" Sinply say what number you're willing to pay for the car (it should be somewhat less than the number you got from Edmunds).

Don't elaborate. Use as few words as possible. Don't bring up how you need the car for work, or you don't need two cars if you buy this, or anything else. If your wife's with you, she needs to remain quiet (this would also go for Rosie's husband). ANYTHING YOU SAY CAN BE USED AGAINST YOU. If you need to discuss something, go outside--some dealers have their sales areas wired.

He'll have you initial your offer (DON'T WORRY--NOTHING'S FINAL UNTIL YOU SIGN THE SALES CONTRACT) and take the sheet to his boss. He'll be back a few minutes later with another offer. Spend a lot of time studying the offer, like you're looking for the holy grail. This will get the guy nervous. Then, reject the offer. He'll then ask for a counter offer. Come up some, and the steps will repeat.

If you don't see a number you can agree on, walk out. Just get up and start heading for the door. 90% chance you'll be followed and you'll get a better offer. Always remember that there are lots of cars out there, and the salesman's invested time in you and his boss will be pissed if he doesn't make a sale.

Finally, you'll get to a number you can agree on. At that point, you go to the finance room. When you get there, start checking things carefully. Make sure they're not putting on some add-on (lame alarm, rust-proofing, etc.) you don't need. You can almost always get it aftermarket for less if you really need it. And most extended warranties are a ripoff.

Another thing to watch for is bogus "delivery charges" added on the contract. Those are dealer charges, they're not mandated by the state. They'll tell you everyone pays them, and maybe everyone does, but you can use that to get something else from them. Keep in mind, the negotiations are still going on.You can still walk at any time. If they won't budge on the delivery charge, get them to throw in (free) an extended warranty or something. One time, at the very end, I made them give me a ball cap from the parts department, or I was going to walk. I still have that cap.

When they start running numbers (they'll have you fill out a credit check), they'll give you a payment. At that point, ask what the percentage is. Now (AND NOT BEFORE) tell them you've arranged a loan through your bank or credit union at a lower rate. Do this even if you haven't arranged the loan. They will usually meet or beat the rate they gave you before.

Any questions? PM me. GOOD LUCK

 

[leo1]

rallen's comment about taking a male with you is right on point. and make sure it's a white male. rosie notwithstanding, we read about this stuff in one of my law school classes: studies show clear discrimination in price, meaning that white males are almost always offered better deals than women and minorities. it's sad, but true.

 

[rallen13]

One other thing. If you can wait until the end of the model year and eat the natural depreciation (knowing you have just bought a brand new car), clearance sales are a gas. No pun intended. Yes, the car is a year old, but it is still brand new.