Calling all Star Wars geeks!!!!
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jay_christley
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Speaking of the flaws in logic ...
I think I remember someone involved (Lucas?) explaining all the other books, comics and cartoons were there to supplement the story. I believe he actually compared it to the Arthurian legacy -- various versions of the legend have been written over the years, some add to the story, some take away, some directly conflict others that were written before or that would follow; but the basic gist behind the story remains intact.
I prefer to refer to this when people get too nitpicky about the plotline/storyline.
I think I remember someone involved (Lucas?) explaining all the other books, comics and cartoons were there to supplement the story. I believe he actually compared it to the Arthurian legacy -- various versions of the legend have been written over the years, some add to the story, some take away, some directly conflict others that were written before or that would follow; but the basic gist behind the story remains intact.
I prefer to refer to this when people get too nitpicky about the plotline/storyline.
Well, I thought the post was going to actually be about the VH1 series that was on. I caught probably the last 20-30 minutes while I was at the gym and thought it was pretty interesting. You had Harrison Ford calling out Pres. Reagan for saying, "pardon me for stealing this, but the Force is with us." It was interesting commentary. That's for sure.
dooley_womack1
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outofplace said:
You've had sex ???
(I keeed).
Rosie
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::)
Piotr Rasputin
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The first Star wars = the greatest B-movie ever made, with great effects, great music, poor acting, and rousing scenes. And the formula has been repeated since, with better plots.
The only "Expanded Universe" books I read were Timothy Zahn's excellent yet quite derivative (lifted quote after quote from the films) trilogy of Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising and The Last Command. As far as this geek is concerned, those were episodes 7-9. I never made the time to read further. I hear they're good.
As for Mr. Binks . . . people fail to see him for what he was. An experiment, a moment of "Can we do this, and just in case we can't, we'd better make sure it's an innocuous character for kids." Sure, he was annoying, but the Jedi stuff in that movie was absolutely breathtaking, a quantum leap ahead of anything we had seen before. Strange what happens when the Jedi aren't old (Ben), half-trained (Luke) or 75 percent mechanical (vader).
So for me, that makes Phantom Menace a better film than the "Jar jar sucks because I forget that the family dog drove the Millennium Falcon and Miss Piggy is the most powerful being in the universe!" crew gives it credit for. I still remember a friend saying to me he hated Phantom because "Where's our charming rogue?" Well, that movie was made 20 years ago, go watch your recording of it.
Add in the podrace, which was a clear signal that Mucas was very happy to defy what people expected in this trilogy, and I liked Phantom a lot. Yes, the child actor sucked; so do most. And the midichlorians thing needed to rally in Episode III, because it fell flat in Episode I. But it's entertaining, Williams did a great job writing new music, Mucas did a great job creating a new universe within the same narrative as the old-school, and I liked it a lot.
As for Clones . . . . it's my least favorite of the six. But it's like saying Temple of Doom is the worst Indiana Jones film; it's still pretty good and better than most other films in the genre. It's not like any of the Star Wars films plumbed the depths like Star Trek V or Star Trek I did. Talk about horrendous . . . .
My wife notes that, while Mucas likely didn't think of this and simply wrote bad love dialogue, there is a logical explanation for the situation in Clones. Anakin has been raised among warrior priests who discouraged romance; when did he learn how to talk to a girl? So he remembers this girl, and just pours it out to her like the lovesick dork he is. Padme (which I always took as a NICE reference to ms. Portman's flat chest) has been a politician her whole life, with no time for romance. So, thrust into a dangerous situation with this young hero, she says why the hell not?
My personal rankings:
Empire
(and a small dropoff to)
Sith/the Original (every action/adventure movie since has tried and failed to match the dialogue, the scene-setting, the music and the rousing quality of the original film's climax)
Phantom Menace
Return of the Jedi (the only one of the six that is predictable from beginning to end, though I'll hear arguments in its favor due to Leia's space bikini)
Attack of the Clones (did like the love theme and Portman's outfits)
The only "Expanded Universe" books I read were Timothy Zahn's excellent yet quite derivative (lifted quote after quote from the films) trilogy of Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising and The Last Command. As far as this geek is concerned, those were episodes 7-9. I never made the time to read further. I hear they're good.
As for Mr. Binks . . . people fail to see him for what he was. An experiment, a moment of "Can we do this, and just in case we can't, we'd better make sure it's an innocuous character for kids." Sure, he was annoying, but the Jedi stuff in that movie was absolutely breathtaking, a quantum leap ahead of anything we had seen before. Strange what happens when the Jedi aren't old (Ben), half-trained (Luke) or 75 percent mechanical (vader).
So for me, that makes Phantom Menace a better film than the "Jar jar sucks because I forget that the family dog drove the Millennium Falcon and Miss Piggy is the most powerful being in the universe!" crew gives it credit for. I still remember a friend saying to me he hated Phantom because "Where's our charming rogue?" Well, that movie was made 20 years ago, go watch your recording of it.
Add in the podrace, which was a clear signal that Mucas was very happy to defy what people expected in this trilogy, and I liked Phantom a lot. Yes, the child actor sucked; so do most. And the midichlorians thing needed to rally in Episode III, because it fell flat in Episode I. But it's entertaining, Williams did a great job writing new music, Mucas did a great job creating a new universe within the same narrative as the old-school, and I liked it a lot.
As for Clones . . . . it's my least favorite of the six. But it's like saying Temple of Doom is the worst Indiana Jones film; it's still pretty good and better than most other films in the genre. It's not like any of the Star Wars films plumbed the depths like Star Trek V or Star Trek I did. Talk about horrendous . . . .
My wife notes that, while Mucas likely didn't think of this and simply wrote bad love dialogue, there is a logical explanation for the situation in Clones. Anakin has been raised among warrior priests who discouraged romance; when did he learn how to talk to a girl? So he remembers this girl, and just pours it out to her like the lovesick dork he is. Padme (which I always took as a NICE reference to ms. Portman's flat chest) has been a politician her whole life, with no time for romance. So, thrust into a dangerous situation with this young hero, she says why the hell not?
My personal rankings:
Empire
(and a small dropoff to)
Sith/the Original (every action/adventure movie since has tried and failed to match the dialogue, the scene-setting, the music and the rousing quality of the original film's climax)
Phantom Menace
Return of the Jedi (the only one of the six that is predictable from beginning to end, though I'll hear arguments in its favor due to Leia's space bikini)
Attack of the Clones (did like the love theme and Portman's outfits)
Piotr Rasputin
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TigerVols said:
While I find the first part of your post very impressive . . . this TV series has been known for a while. I personally wish they would leave well enough alone, but oh well. I know I'll tape it every week.
outofplace
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Bubbler said:
dooley_womack1 said:
hehe...yeah, she's living, breathing proof. You can even see the family resemblance (poor kid)
Starman
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Lucas very certainly DID, on several occasions in the 1980s, refer to an eventual nine-episode 'trilogy of trilogies' Star Wars series. The last 10 years or so, he's been furiously denying he ever said such a thing, but he did, in a TIME magazine interview among other places. And he said it enough times, it wasn't just an off-the-cuff comment tossed off in a careless moment.
The third series, as many have mentioned, would feature the children of Leia and Han Solo, and the children of Luke Skywalker, leading a reestablished Jedi order, with Luke serving as the senior elder, the Obi-Wan/Yoda role. The reestablished Jedi would face a new challenge of evil, with the Sith destroyed by the dual deaths of Palpatine/Vader. Although presumably there were a lot of bad people involved in the Empire who wouldn't just simply have faded away after the big boys went down.
I could see a long-form TV series, like a Deadwood of Star Wars, filling in the inter-trilogy gaps, and maybe also serving as a epilogue/sequel to the series overall.
A number of loose ends were quite blatantly left hanging in 'Sith' -- Yoda tells Obi-Wan he will "learn to commune" with Qui-Gon. In the funeral procession for Padme, the camera slowly pans over her nieces -- pre-teens at the time of Luke and Leia, who coincidentally would be almost the exact same age as Han Solo. There's some reason Lucas did that.
As far as Lucas' constant denials he will ever make (or allow to be made) any more SW movies:
1) He spent much of the late 80s/early 90s denying he was ever going to make ANY more SW episodes; and
2) All the denials become moot the minute Lucas utters four words: "I changed my mind."
The third series, as many have mentioned, would feature the children of Leia and Han Solo, and the children of Luke Skywalker, leading a reestablished Jedi order, with Luke serving as the senior elder, the Obi-Wan/Yoda role. The reestablished Jedi would face a new challenge of evil, with the Sith destroyed by the dual deaths of Palpatine/Vader. Although presumably there were a lot of bad people involved in the Empire who wouldn't just simply have faded away after the big boys went down.
I could see a long-form TV series, like a Deadwood of Star Wars, filling in the inter-trilogy gaps, and maybe also serving as a epilogue/sequel to the series overall.
A number of loose ends were quite blatantly left hanging in 'Sith' -- Yoda tells Obi-Wan he will "learn to commune" with Qui-Gon. In the funeral procession for Padme, the camera slowly pans over her nieces -- pre-teens at the time of Luke and Leia, who coincidentally would be almost the exact same age as Han Solo. There's some reason Lucas did that.
As far as Lucas' constant denials he will ever make (or allow to be made) any more SW movies:
1) He spent much of the late 80s/early 90s denying he was ever going to make ANY more SW episodes; and
2) All the denials become moot the minute Lucas utters four words: "I changed my mind."
2muchcoffeeman
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Starman said:
Those are being done as books, not movies. And a hella lot more than 3.
wisportswriter
Member
Rasputin: Bravo on the defense of TPM. (That shows you're a true SW Geek, when you refer to the movies by acronym.) I couldn't agree more, especially about seeing a full-fledged band of bad-ass Jedi. How can that not entertain a Star Wars fan? Jar-Jar wasn't that bad. No, he wasn't.
Bubbler: Well played.
Dye: Now you've done it: You've challenged the great George Lucas, and are about to get an explanation from a SW Geek.
The theory is that the Emperor's powers were strong enough to control each individual Stormtrooper, all of whom were clones. So when Vader f-ed up the Emperor aboard the Death Star, the 'Troopers were rendered hapless, thus the final score: Teddy Bears 1, Empire Warriors 0.
Take it or leave it.
Bubbler: Well played.
Dye: Now you've done it: You've challenged the great George Lucas, and are about to get an explanation from a SW Geek.
The theory is that the Emperor's powers were strong enough to control each individual Stormtrooper, all of whom were clones. So when Vader f-ed up the Emperor aboard the Death Star, the 'Troopers were rendered hapless, thus the final score: Teddy Bears 1, Empire Warriors 0.
Take it or leave it.
kokane_muthashed
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Bubbler said:
From Wookieepedia:
"But the Sarlacc could never hold Fett. Shortly after the Battle of Endor, the Sarlacc, finding Fett somehow indigestable, "burped" him out, throwing him onto the sand. It was there that he was found by a group of Jawa's who took him to be either a droid or cyborg (they never bothered to scan him, of course) and, doubting he was intelligent, claimed him as their own. They took him into their sandcrawler, fit a restraining bolt on him, and went on their way. He would soon be joined by an old face when the Jawa's stole R2-D2 from a hangar bay in Mos Eisley."
outofplace
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wisportswriter said:
Was it actual control or just nudging in the right places? I read about that in one of Timothy Zahn's novels. That was also the reason the Empire lost the space battle after the Death Star went down. They still had more firepower than the rebels, who took a beating at the beginning of that attack. They just weren't nearly as effective without the Emperor's influence.
Dude
Well-Known Member
Do you think your average storm trooper knows how to install a toilet main?
L
Lone_Star_Speed
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The second...er, first trilogy was to have been completed and released at a rate of one film per year. Then Lucas was going to do the third trilogy with plans for the ninth chapter to be released on the 30th anniversary of the original release of "Star Wars" which was simply "Star Wars" 29 years ago. "Chapter IV: A New Hope" wasn't added till the film was rereleased once "Empire" was in the works.
David Lynch was George's first choice to direct "Return of the Jedi" but Lynch had a hard-on to make the disaster that was "Dune." But one has to wonder how different "Jedi" would have been. Ewoks possibly replaced with backwards speaking dwarves?
The first spin-off novels were released between "Star Wars" and "Empire." Splinter of the Mind's Eye was written by literary sci-fi schlockmeister and ghostwriter extraordinaire Alan Dean Foster. I don't recall if he also penned Han Solo at Star's End. I think that there was another Han Solo novel around that time as well.
David Lynch was George's first choice to direct "Return of the Jedi" but Lynch had a hard-on to make the disaster that was "Dune." But one has to wonder how different "Jedi" would have been. Ewoks possibly replaced with backwards speaking dwarves?
The first spin-off novels were released between "Star Wars" and "Empire." Splinter of the Mind's Eye was written by literary sci-fi schlockmeister and ghostwriter extraordinaire Alan Dean Foster. I don't recall if he also penned Han Solo at Star's End. I think that there was another Han Solo novel around that time as well.
2muchcoffeeman
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ADF wrote all three of the Han Solo novels, I believe.
bigpern23
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Everyone who says Clones was superior to Phantom Menace is overlooking a major factor: Darth Maul. He was the second-most badass character in the series (Vader being first) and his lightsaber battle with Qui Gon and Obi Wan was the best swordfight in film history, IMHO.
The drawbacks were a podrace that was too long and Jar Jar Binks. I think the good outweighed the bad.
Clones had Christensen whining through most of the movie and the ridiculous love scenes. The major action pieces were the Jedi battle and Yoda/Dooku. Seeing Yoda in action was fun, but it wasn't as good as Maul vs. Qui Gon/Obi Wan. It was cool to see a ****load of Jedi kicking ass, but that scene wasn't as good as the battle on Naboo in Menace.
Menace was better. Sith was a step or three above both. I read an interview with Lucas where he said that he had the whole story for the three movies in his head, but about 60 percent of the plot was concentrated in Sith. About 20 percent was in Clones and Menace, meaning he had to do some stuff to fill out the films, i.e. the pod race.
The drawbacks were a podrace that was too long and Jar Jar Binks. I think the good outweighed the bad.
Clones had Christensen whining through most of the movie and the ridiculous love scenes. The major action pieces were the Jedi battle and Yoda/Dooku. Seeing Yoda in action was fun, but it wasn't as good as Maul vs. Qui Gon/Obi Wan. It was cool to see a ****load of Jedi kicking ass, but that scene wasn't as good as the battle on Naboo in Menace.
Menace was better. Sith was a step or three above both. I read an interview with Lucas where he said that he had the whole story for the three movies in his head, but about 60 percent of the plot was concentrated in Sith. About 20 percent was in Clones and Menace, meaning he had to do some stuff to fill out the films, i.e. the pod race.
outofplace
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2muchcoffeeman said:
I think there are more than three. There's also a trilogy that tells his story from early childhood up until the minute Chewbacca takes him to meet Obi-Wan Kenobi and Luke Skywalker. Also explains the history between him and both Chewbacca and Lando as well as how he got the Millenium Falcon.
Afriend of mine has read most of the novels. She scares me sometimes.
2muchcoffeeman
Well-Known Member
Yeah, but that was different from the Han Solo trilogy written by Foster.
