Billy Wagner HOF?

[old_tony]

Fine, but no one is addressing my points then on the game changing. Because, as I've previously stated, there's no way any starter from this era should make the hall based on what starters of previous eras did.

And do you really want a Hall of Fame with no more pitchers? Might as well change the name to the Batting Hall of Fame, not the Baseball Hall of Fame.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Fine, but no one is addressing my points then on the game changing. Because, as I've previously stated, there's no way any starter from this era should make the hall based on what starters of previous eras did.

And do you really want a Hall of Fame with no more pitchers? Might as well change the name to the Batting Hall of Fame, not the Baseball Hall of Fame.

I don't think we're able to fully grasp how different it will be for pitchers 10 years from now because we still have to induct Maddux, Clemens, Glavine, Randy Johnson and I'm sure I'm forgetting some who were able to reach the HOF benchmarks (300 wins). Assuming Schilling and Smoltz get in (I say they do) it will be interesting to see how pitchers like Pedro Martinez and Johan Santana, who will likely never get close to 300, will be treated by voters.

 

[outofplace]

Fine, but no one is addressing my points then on the game changing. Because, as I've previously stated, there's no way any starter from this era should make the hall based on what starters of previous eras did.

And do you really want a Hall of Fame with no more pitchers? Might as well change the name to the Batting Hall of Fame, not the Baseball Hall of Fame.

I don't think we're able to fully grasp how different it will be for pitchers 10 years from now because we still have to induct Maddux, Clemens, Glavine, Randy Johnson and I'm sure I'm forgetting some who were able to reach the HOF benchmarks (300 wins). Assuming Schilling and Smoltz get in (I say they do) it will be interesting to see how pitchers like Pedro Martinez and Johan Santana, who will likely never get close to 300, will be treated by voters.

If Pedro Martinez doesn't get in, close the doors and forget about it.

 

[spnited]

OK, there are times I agree 100% with OOP.

 

[Moderator1]

I could care less what people think of me. Most of the members here are trolls anyway. There's only a few members that I actually like reading their messages.

It's funny that people "hate" some of my threads, but most of them get close to 100 replies.

So you do care? Because if you could care less, that means you care some, right??

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Pedro will get in, even though he'll never touch 300.

 

[93Devil]

Pedro has to be in.

Guys with 275 wins but no Cys will be the bigger debate.

 

[shockey]

has this link really degenerated to the point we're actually debating whether PEDRO MARTINEZ is head to the hall of fame? REALLY?

check, please! :o :o :o :o

 

[qtlaw]

Wagner is/was a very good closer but that's it. He's not memorable, never utterly dominated. Yes he was a lefty who threw nearly 100 and struck guys out but when was he ever considered the best? Did he ever really dominate for a couple of years? Not that I can recall. He's a Richard Dotson/Jim Kaat, really good pitcher with some longevity (read yesterday that Oscar Gamble played for 17 years, amazing). He's not an HOF'er to me.

 

[dreunc1542]

I love when Mizzou brings up randomly dumb points (like the idea that Pedro might not get in) and then people jump on how stupid said point is and then he instantly backs off and agrees that his point was wrong. It happens like three times per thread on these HOF threads.

 

[93Devil]

How many starting pitchers with less than 220 wins are in the HOF? It's a short list.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

I'd like to know where I said Pedro wouldn't get in. I said it will be interesting to see who gets in now that they're not hitting the 300 win marker. Pedro is a lock and has always been a lock. If he retires today, he cruises into Cooperstown on the first ballot.

 

[cyclingwriter]

Sub 220 wins in Hall

Stan Coveleski
Chief Bender
Jesse Haines
Don Drysdale
Hal Newhouser
Rube Marquard
Jack Chesbro
Dazzy Vance
Ed Walsh
Rube Waddell
Lefty Gomez
Sandy Koufax
Addie Joss
Dizzy Dean

 

[93Devil]

And none since Drysdale? Is that correct to say?

 

[Mizzougrad96]

How many wins do Sutter, Gossage and Eckersley have?

 

[dreunc1542]

"...it will be interesting to see how pitchers like Pedro Martinez and Johan Santana, who will likely never get close to 300, will be treated by voters."

That certainly raises the point that you feel there might be a chance he doesn't get in. If you feel he's a lock, then why even put his name in that sentence. There are lots of other names that could have made your point better.

But as always, you put points out there in the guise of "it will be interesting to see..." and then quickly backpedal when people call you out on it. It's been the Mizzou way for as long as I can remember. I was just pointing out how prevalent it's been of late on these HOF threads.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

"...it will be interesting to see how pitchers like Pedro Martinez and Johan Santana, who will likely never get close to 300, will be treated by voters."

That certainly raises the point that you feel there might be a chance he doesn't get in. If you feel he's a lock, then why even put his name in that sentence. There are lots of other names that could have made your point better.

But as always, you put points out there in the guise of "it will be interesting to see..." and then quickly backpedal when people call you out on it. It's been the Mizzou way for as long as I can remember. I was just pointing out how prevalent it's been of late on these HOF threads.

The Mizzou way? Wow, you're giving me way too much credit.

However you read it, I was never implying that Pedro would not get in. I was citing him as an example of someone who will not get to 300, but will get to Cooperstown.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

 

[cyclingwriter]

And none since Drysdale? Is that correct to say?

Technically yes. Newhouser played before Drysdale, but was elected later.

 

[dreunc1542]

"...it will be interesting to see how pitchers like Pedro Martinez and Johan Santana, who will likely never get close to 300, will be treated by voters."

That certainly raises the point that you feel there might be a chance he doesn't get in. If you feel he's a lock, then why even put his name in that sentence. There are lots of other names that could have made your point better.

But as always, you put points out there in the guise of "it will be interesting to see..." and then quickly backpedal when people call you out on it. It's been the Mizzou way for as long as I can remember. I was just pointing out how prevalent it's been of late on these HOF threads.

The Mizzou way? Wow, you're giving me way too much credit.

However you read it, I was never implying that Pedro would not get in. I was citing him as an example of someone who will not get to 300, but will get to Cooperstown.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

All right, fair enough. Then why lump him in with Santana, who would need a significant career revival to have a shot at Cooperstown. Santana had a really good peak, but it was nowhere near the otherworldly numbers that Pedro put up.