Big Brother 14

[Killick]

Dan is an evil genius. Most Machiavellian player since Will, hands down, and arguably better. But then, Will didn't have such a malleable idiot to manipulate like Danielle.

 

[FootballScribe]

Dan is an evil genius. Most Machiavellian player since Will, hands down, and arguably better. But then, Will didn't have such a malleable idiot to manipulate like Danielle.

I thought Dan had played a perfect "evil" game until last night. But I really do think he erred in doing what he did to Shane in lieu of getting rid of the one guy who can definitely beat him in the jury. Dan now has serious enemies in the jury house, a jury house that is going to put all the pieces together and probably won't take the (proper) approach that Britney does to respect his game. Shane, Frank, Jenn, Joe already despise Dan and Ashley will do whatever Frank says.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Seriously, I'd call her a puppet, but that would be an insult every sock and magic marker ever created. He is evil, but his bull**** wouldn't work if they added a few more firing neurons to the house. It almost feels like the whole thing was scripted, right down to keeping Ian around because he was easily the most popular this season.

My new favorite term is "blood up to my elbows."

And did anything sum up the season better than this exchange (remember Danielle is the HoH and has the power!)?

Dan: "What are you gonna do?"
Danielle: "What do you want me to do?"
Dan: "Make your own decision."
Danielle: "Shut up, Dan."

And Football, I think you are so wrong. Dan was going to have an uphill battle against any of them. He has left a jury house full of enemies, and most of them don't see a game player the way Britney does. With his move, he kept around the two people he has been able to manipulate (he has final two deals with both of them), plus he got out the biggest threat that was left for what was likely to be an endurance or physical competition. He made the right move.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

I still think that if Dan and Danielle are in the Final 2 that Dan would win.

Ian would beat either of them. But one could also argue that Dan should hope that Danielle is the next to go because she would probably vote for Dan anyway.

I hope Ian wins that would be awesome, but for my money, and I haven't seen every season, but I've seen most of them (probably 11 of them) Dan is the second best player in show history, only behind Will.

 

[FootballScribe]

Seriously, I'd call her a puppet, but that would be an insult every sock and magic marker ever created. He is evil, but his bull**** wouldn't work if they added a few more firing neurons to the house. It almost feels like the whole thing was scripted, right down to keeping Ian around because he was easily the most popular this season.

My new favorite term is "blood up to my elbows."

And did anything sum up the season better than this exchange (remember Danielle is the HoH and has the power!)?

Dan: "What are you gonna do?"
Danielle: "What do you want me to do?"
Dan: "Make your own decision."
Danielle: "Shut up, Dan."

And Football, I think you are so wrong. Dan was going to have an uphill battle against any of them. He has left a jury house full of enemies, and most of them don't see a game player the way Britney does. With his move, he kept around the two people he has been able to manipulate (he has final two deals with both of them), plus he got out the biggest threat that was left for what was likely to be an endurance or physical competition. He made the right move.

We'll agree to disagree. I think in Dan's mind he can talk his way into winning on the final night against Danielle or Shane if for no other reason than he controlled them the whole season. Ian has every bit as good a case as Dan, if not better and he's more well liked in the jury house. Dan stands no chance against Ian but I think he might be able to talk his way into it against Shane or Danielle.

Also, the final competition is only one part endurance or physical, the part Dan has already won. Shane hasn't been much better than Ian in competitions and Ian should be able to take him to school in the other two parts which are more mentall focused (usually).

I do agree that Dan has a bit of an uphill battle in general but making an enemy out of Shane was completely needless and if Dan ends up in final two with Ian, he then has two more enemies because Danielle will do what Shane wants also.

 

[Point of Order]

It doesn't matter who you can beat in jury if you don't make final 2. Dan's chances of making final 2 go way down against Danielle and Shane because neither of them would take him. Ian will. Better to lose in final 2 than to finish 3rd.

 

[FootballScribe]

It doesn't matter who you can beat in jury if you don't make final 2. Dan's chances of making final 2 go way down against Danielle and Shane because neither of them would take him. Ian will. Better to lose in final 2 than to finish 3rd.

I guess I have a bit more faith in Ian than you guys do. I know he's been under Dan's spell too but I think he's smart enough to chop him if he gets the chance here. After what just happened to Shane, I get the feeling Ian sees Dan for what he is. Of course, Ian might also figure Dan is the best person to go to the final with because Dan has stabbed so many in the back.

 

[Point of Order]

It doesn't matter who you can beat in jury if you don't make final 2. Dan's chances of making final 2 go way down against Danielle and Shane because neither of them would take him. Ian will. Better to lose in final 2 than to finish 3rd.

I guess I have a bit more faith in Ian than you guys do. I know he's been under Dan's spell too but I think he's smart enough to chop him if he gets the chance here. After what just happened to Shane, I get the feeling Ian sees Dan for what he is. Of course, Ian might also figure Dan is the best person to go to the final with because Dan has stabbed so many in the back.

Maybe so re Ian. I hope so. I'm still very much #TeamIan and think he's got a shot. I'm just saying that from Dan's perspective, I get the move he made. I think he knows Ian will be hard to beat in final 2 but that it was the lesser of two bad options for him, the other being going to final 3 with 2 people who he knows will not take him to the end.

 

[FootballScribe]

It doesn't matter who you can beat in jury if you don't make final 2. Dan's chances of making final 2 go way down against Danielle and Shane because neither of them would take him. Ian will. Better to lose in final 2 than to finish 3rd.

Seemed a little strange to me that just last week he was so gung ho about getting Ian out (which was his initial plan in the double evict) then all of a sudden it was all about getting rid of Shane.

I guess I have a bit more faith in Ian than you guys do. I know he's been under Dan's spell too but I think he's smart enough to chop him if he gets the chance here. After what just happened to Shane, I get the feeling Ian sees Dan for what he is. Of course, Ian might also figure Dan is the best person to go to the final with because Dan has stabbed so many in the back.

Maybe so re Ian. I hope so. I'm still very much #TeamIan and think he's got a shot. I'm just saying that from Dan's perspective, I get the move he made. I think he knows Ian will be hard to beat in final 2 but that it was the lesser of two bad options for him, the other being going to final 3 with 2 people who he knows will not take him to the end.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Dan won the first part of the three-part HOH challenge.

Ian won the second part.

The third part will be done live on the finale...

I think conventional wisdom is that whoever wins takes Danielle and then crushes her in jury, but with the way this season has gone, I kind of expect Dan or Ian to take the other to the final. I think that would be a mistake for Dan, and it won't matter for Ian.

I would be very curious to see how the votes would wind up if it was Dan vs. Danielle. I don't think Dan has pissed people off to the point where they would vote for Danielle over him, but I've been surprised before by some of these shows where they vote against the person who got them eliminated rather than vote for the person who played the best game.

 

[The Big Ragu]

If Dan is half the genius everyone thinks, he will be too smart to take Ian to the final two with him. He will know he is going to lose 5-2 or at best 4-3 to him. The only two votes I could see going to Dan in the jury would be Danielle and Jenn. That is not to say he is that smart, but at least he stands a chance against Danielle. He can basically point out that she was his puppet, make a claim of brilliance by being able to get himself AS WELL as his student through to the final two, and claim that even though he got blood all over himself he played the game better than her -- she was a floater who did whatever he told her to do.

If he tries that against Ian, he can't claim he manipulated Ian that way. Ian can at least claim to be more virtuous, can point to having won a couple of HoHs and POVs, and having gotten Boogie out. That will win Ian the game, 5-2 if I had to guess.

I think Ian wins against either of them. I think Dan has a tough time, but at least a chance against Danielle, no chance against Ian. The dilemma here for me would be who does Ian take if he wins. I think he is too smart to be manipulated by Dan. According to the write ups of the feeds, Dan was trying to get Ian to tank the second competition, and had Danielle being his usual puppet by acting like she hated Dan to make Ian feel safe by doing it. But Ian went out and just beat Danielle flat.

I think Ian actually has a better chance against Dan than against Danielle, although I think it is the difference between a 5-2 vote if he is sitting next to Dan, as opposed to a 4-3 possible vote next to Danielle. If it is Ian vs. Danielle, my guess is that Dan, Jenn and Shane will vote for Danielle. Brit, Frank, Joe and Ashley will vote for Ian, although Joe and Ashley are slight wildcards.

If it is Ian vs. Dan, I am fairly certain the only votes Dan will get will be Danielle (who will be a stooge right up until the end) and Jenn (who plays personally and just hates Ian).

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Did CBS really show a tweet from @BigBrotherWhore on national TV? Really!?!

 

[The Big Ragu]

I hated the housemates this season. But this was my favorite outcome in the seasons I have watched.

The only surprise to me was that Jenn voted for Ian.

Do you think Dan threw the competition, feeling pretty safe that Ian would take him -- so he didn't need the blood on his hands of evicting Dani? I am fairly certain he did.

Also, oh my lord on Dani. After that, she STILL voted for Dan. She is pathetic.

 

[FootballScribe]

I hated the housemates this season. But this was my favorite outcome in the seasons I have watched.

The only surprise to me was that Jenn voted for Ian.

Do you think Dan threw the competition, feeling pretty safe that Ian would take him -- so he didn't need the blood on his hands of evicting Dani? I am fairly certain he did.

Also, oh my lord on Dani. After that, she STILL voted for Dan. She is pathetic.

No way Dan threw the competition. I think he would have taken Danielle. He cost himself $500K when he evicted Shane instead of Ian. That simple.

 

[The Big Ragu]

I hated the housemates this season. But this was my favorite outcome in the seasons I have watched.

The only surprise to me was that Jenn voted for Ian.

Do you think Dan threw the competition, feeling pretty safe that Ian would take him -- so he didn't need the blood on his hands of evicting Dani? I am fairly certain he did.

Also, oh my lord on Dani. After that, she STILL voted for Dan. She is pathetic.

No way Dan threw the competition. I think he would have taken Danielle. He cost himself $500K when he evicted Shane instead of Ian. That simple.

Yeah, we got that from you. You saw how it went down yesterday. With Shane in the house, who knows if he would have gotten to the final competition for HoH. He won that endurance competition because both Ian and Danielle tanked it for him. With Shane there that doesn't happen. Even if he had won that one, if either Shane or Danielle had won the final competition -- and Dan lost that one too -- Dan doesn't make the Final Two, because they would have taken each other.

He didn't cost himself $500K with that move. He guaranteed himself a place in the Final Two with it. You have him going from Final 4 to Final 2, and winning it all somehow if it is Shane and Dani left, and you are skipping a lot of things that probably wouldn't have happened, since he would have been left going 1 against 2 if it was Shane and Danielle.

 

[FootballScribe]

I hated the housemates this season. But this was my favorite outcome in the seasons I have watched.

The only surprise to me was that Jenn voted for Ian.

Do you think Dan threw the competition, feeling pretty safe that Ian would take him -- so he didn't need the blood on his hands of evicting Dani? I am fairly certain he did.

Also, oh my lord on Dani. After that, she STILL voted for Dan. She is pathetic.

No way Dan threw the competition. I think he would have taken Danielle. He cost himself $500K when he evicted Shane instead of Ian. That simple.

Yeah, we got that from you. You saw how it went down yesterday. With Shane in the house, who knows if he would have gotten to the final competition for HoH. He won that endurance competition because both Ian and Danielle tanked it for him. With Shane there that doesn't happen. Even if he had won that one, if either Shane or Danielle had won the final competition -- and Dan lost that one too -- Dan doesn't make the Final Two, because they would have taken each other.

He didn't cost himself $500K with that move. He guaranteed himself a place in the Final Two with it. You have him going from Final 4 to Final 2, and winning it all somehow if it is Shane and Dani left, and you are skipping a lot of things that probably wouldn't have happened, since he would have been left going 1 against 2 if it was Shane and Danielle.

I understand what you're saying. And yes, we don't know what would have happened had Shane stayed. But you don't know that he wouldn't have won the final HOH anymore than I know that he would have. You are also making assumptions that Danielle wouldn't have taken Dan over Shane. Dan thinks that but based on his track record of getting Danielle to do whatever he wants, even multiple times after his ultimate backstab, I'm not so sure the odds were uneven as you do.

I do know that he kept the one player he couldn't even touch in a jury vote and made a huge enemy in Shane on the jury who helped expose him even further to the rest of the jury.

 

[Point of Order]

He only got two right in final hoh part 3 so he probably would have lost to any out them if he even did make out that far.

 

[The Big Ragu]

He only got two right in final hoh part 3 so he probably would have lost to any out them if he even did make out that far.

You sure he didn't throw it? I'd bet he did. He was way too smug in that last hour and a half. I think he knew he had Ian taking him, and he didn't want the fresh blood on his hands as Danielle went to sit with the jury. He was trying to secure her vote. I just think he miscalculated thinking he was going to win easily. In the end, he was too full of himself.

Ian's speech was more heartfelt and effective. Dan's came off as fake, trying to suck up to everyone. Not that that really influenced anything. I think Dan might have had a chance against Danielle, but still probably would have lost (with Shane, Ashley, Frank and Joe voting for Danielle, and Britney, Ian and Jenn voting for Dan).

This is just a guess, but I think Britney and Frank were the leaders in the jury house. They had the strongest personalities and they can pull people along with them. Even though Britney expressed admiration for Dan's game play, as evidenced by the fact that she voted for Ian, I think she wanted him to win. And I think she probably was pretty persuasive in getting others to jump on the Ian bandwagon. If it had been Dan / Dani, I think Britney would have given the vote to Dan, and could possibly have pulled an extra vote or two his way. No way Frank was ever going to vote for Dan, and as Frank was voting, so was Ashley. With a bunch of followers in the jury house and I think Britney and Frank probably influenced their votes. Frank got Ashley (even though she probably would have gone for Ian on her own) to vote for Ian. And he probably dragged Jenn along, getting her to change her mind and follow along. I don't think Joe and Shane needed a ton of convincing to vote AGAINST Dan.

 

[FootballScribe]

He only got two right in final hoh part 3 so he probably would have lost to any out them if he even did make out that far.

You sure he didn't throw it? I'd bet he did. He was way too smug in that last hour and a half. I think he knew he had Ian taking him, and he didn't want the fresh blood on his hands as Danielle went to sit with the jury. He was trying to secure her vote. I just think he miscalculated thinking he was going to win easily. In the end, he was too full of himself.

Ian's speech was more heartfelt and effective. Dan's came off as fake, trying to suck up to everyone. Not that that really influenced anything. I think Dan might have had a chance against Danielle, but still probably would have lost (with Shane, Ashley, Frank and Joe voting for Danielle, and Britney, Ian and Jenn voting for Dan).

This is just a guess, but I think Britney and Frank were the leaders in the jury house. They had the strongest personalities and they can pull people along with them. Even though Britney expressed admiration for Dan's game play, as evidenced by the fact that she voted for Ian, I think she wanted him to win. And I think she probably was pretty persuasive in getting others to jump on the Ian bandwagon. If it had been Dan / Dani, I think Britney would have given the vote to Dan, and could possibly have pulled an extra vote or two his way. No way Frank was ever going to vote for Dan, and as Frank was voting, so was Ashley. With a bunch of followers in the jury house and I think Britney and Frank probably influenced their votes. Frank got Ashley (even though she probably would have gone for Ian on her own) to vote for Ian. And he probably dragged Jenn along, getting her to change her mind and follow along. I don't think Joe and Shane needed a ton of convincing to vote AGAINST Dan.

Definitely agree with this. Britney and Frank were constantly going back and forth. And you could see how excited Britney was for Ian when Julie was reading the votes.

My question on the whole "throwing the final HOH" theory is: how exactly would you go about throwing something like that?

Those questions don't really have known, definitive answers. Even Ian said he was just guessing on the answers after the fact. I actually hate that final challenge because it is a guessing game.

 

[The Big Ragu]

He only got two right in final hoh part 3 so he probably would have lost to any out them if he even did make out that far.

You sure he didn't throw it? I'd bet he did. He was way too smug in that last hour and a half. I think he knew he had Ian taking him, and he didn't want the fresh blood on his hands as Danielle went to sit with the jury. He was trying to secure her vote. I just think he miscalculated thinking he was going to win easily. In the end, he was too full of himself.

Ian's speech was more heartfelt and effective. Dan's came off as fake, trying to suck up to everyone. Not that that really influenced anything. I think Dan might have had a chance against Danielle, but still probably would have lost (with Shane, Ashley, Frank and Joe voting for Danielle, and Britney, Ian and Jenn voting for Dan).

This is just a guess, but I think Britney and Frank were the leaders in the jury house. They had the strongest personalities and they can pull people along with them. Even though Britney expressed admiration for Dan's game play, as evidenced by the fact that she voted for Ian, I think she wanted him to win. And I think she probably was pretty persuasive in getting others to jump on the Ian bandwagon. If it had been Dan / Dani, I think Britney would have given the vote to Dan, and could possibly have pulled an extra vote or two his way. No way Frank was ever going to vote for Dan, and as Frank was voting, so was Ashley. With a bunch of followers in the jury house and I think Britney and Frank probably influenced their votes. Frank got Ashley (even though she probably would have gone for Ian on her own) to vote for Ian. And he probably dragged Jenn along, getting her to change her mind and follow along. I don't think Joe and Shane needed a ton of convincing to vote AGAINST Dan.

Definitely agree with this. Britney and Frank were constantly going back and forth. And you could see how excited Britney was for Ian when Julie was reading the votes.

My question on the whole "throwing the final HOH" theory is: how exactly would you go about throwing something like that?

Those questions don't really have known, definitive answers. Even Ian said he was just guessing on the answers after the fact. I actually hate that final challenge because it is a guessing game.

Well, it is hard to throw it definitively. But I suspect he picked the opposite answer he thought was correct for the last few.