al mvp race

[RickStain]

200 hits are dependent on no one.

20 homers aren't that many, but dependent on no one.

25 stolen bases are dependent on no one (although a few could be dependent on others).

All true, but none of those are MVP-quality numbers, either.

Then again, they are dependent on the Yankees' lineup. Jeter bats leadoff in the lineup that leads the league in OBP. He's getting more plate appearance opportunities than anyway, which helps him pile up rate stats.

 

[heyabbott]

200 hits are dependent on no one.

20 homers aren't that many, but dependent on no one.

25 stolen bases are dependent on no one (although a few could be dependent on others).

By Dependent I mean each of the first 3 players in the batting order is protected by an outstanding offensive player behind him. Jeter gets the opportunity to get 200 hits because Damon is having an excellent season.
20 HRs from the leadoff stop is alot. Who has more batting in the #1 position.

 

[Songbird]

200 hits are dependent on no one.

20 homers aren't that many, but dependent on no one.

25 stolen bases are dependent on no one (although a few could be dependent on others).

By Dependent I mean each of the first 3 players in the batting order is protected by an outstanding offensive player behind him. Jeter gets the opportunity to get 200 hits because Damon is having an excellent season.
20 HRs from the leadoff stop is alot. Who has more batting in the #1 position.

When you put it that way, I agree.

 

[buckweaver]

HRs from the leadoff spot, 2009:
(not to be confused with "leadoff homers")

I. Kinsler, 23
C. Granderson, 21
D. Jeter, 16
A. Soriano, 14
B. Roberts, 14
J. Rollins, 14
G. Sizemore, 12
M. Scutaro, 11
A. McCutchen, 10
I. Suzuki, 8
R. Weeks, 8
D. DeJesus, 8
B. Upton, 7
C. Coghlan, 7
N. McLouth, 7
D. Span, 6
F. Lopez, 6
S. Drew, 6
A. Rowand, 6
A. Pagan, 6
A. Kennedy, 5
K. Johnson, 5
Scotty Pods, 5

 

[YGBFKM]

Scotty Pods!

Remember, Jeter is about to become the greatest Yankee ever.

 

[BYH]

This debate about Mauer reminds me a lot of 1987 and Andre Dawson winning the NL MVP despite playing for the dog-ass last-place Cubs. Being 14 at the time, I thought there was no debate. The dude led the league with 49 HRs and 137 RBI (I still remember those numbers off the top of my head), numbers he never approached before or after.

Years later, I've come to think Ozzie Smith should have been the MVP (he came a lot closer than I remembered: http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/awards_1987.shtml#NLmvp). He scored 102 runs and racked up 75 RBI, without hitting a single home run. More than half of Dawson's runs (90) occurred when he drove himself in. Smith also stole 43 bases, drew 89 walks, hit .303, recorded an OBP of .392 (Dawson: .328) and played his usual awesome Gold Glove defense for a pennant-winner. The latter, to me, became the ultimate tiebreaker. A player had to have played for a playoff team to win the MVP.

That no longer qualifies. Dawson's season was impressive, but dulled by the season in which he had it, when even Wade Boggs hit 24 homers. Mauer is, it cannot be pointed out enough, HAVING ONE OF THE HANDFUL OF ALL-TIME SEASONS, and he's doing it despite a.) missing a month and b.) playing the most demanding position on the diamond.

This whole theory that Mauer shouldn't be credited for what he might have done if he didn't miss April is crazy. It's not like he's got 15 homers and 50 RBI and we're sitting here going, well, if he played in April he'd have 20 homers and 70 RBI. He's got a whole ****ton more than that DESPITE missing April and is leading the league in all the relevant offensive percentage categories.

This is one of the greatest seasons we will ever see and it doesn't matter if the Twins go 86-76 and win the division or knock the Mets and Tigers out of the record book by going 39-123. He is, by laps and laps and laps, the best player in the AL this year, and if he doesn't win MVP--I'd say unanimously, but you can't account for the random boob voting for someone else--they may as well burn the trophy.

 

[Songbird]

The one thing that ESPN's splits (which they say they get from Elias) don't provide are game-tying or game-winning hits. I'd like to see those.


Mauer's splits:

Leading off an inning ...... 25 for 78, 5 HR, 3B, 4 2B, 5R, 5 RBI, 12K, .321 avg.

Bases loaded...................2 for 6, HR, 7 RBI, 0K, .333 avg.

Scoring position, 2 outs....16 for 39, 3 HR, 23 RBI, 3 2B, 14 BB, 6K, .410 avg.

None on.........................83 for 230, 17 HR, 9 2B, 1 3B, 26 BB, 30K, .361 avg.

Runners on.....................66 for 172, 8 HR, 62 RBI, 12 2B, 26BB, 21K, .384 avg.

Scoring position..............34 for 92, 6 HR, 55 RBI, 7 2B, 21BB, 14K, .370 avg.

vs. the Yanks ................10 for 29, 3 HR, 5 RBI, 2B, 4BB, 4K, .345 avg.

in August .....................43 for 107, 7 HR, 22 RBI, 6 2B, 12BB, 8K, .402 avg.



Mark Teixeira's splits:

Bases loaded ..........................2 for 8, 2 2B, 8 RBI, BB, 3K, .250 avg.

Scoring position 2 outs .............17 for 49, 2 HR, 22 RBI, 3 2B, 13BB, 10K, .347 avg.

Leading off inning ....................24 for 75, 7 HR, 6 2B, 5BB, 11K, .320 avg.

None on ................................73 for 247, 21 HR, 17 2B, 27BB, 48K, .296 avg.

Runners on ............................67 for 247, 10 HR, 76 RBI, 18 2B, 43BB, 41K, .271 avg.

Scoring position ......................39 for 139, 4 HR, 59 RBI, 12 2B, 33BB, 28K, .281

vs. Minnesota..........................14 for 29, 4 HR, 11 RBI, 2 2B, 3BB, 5K, .483 avg.

in August ...............................30 for 102, 5 HR, 22 RBI, 7 2B, 16BB, 18K, .294 avg.

 

[heyabbott]

The one thing that ESPN's splits (which they say they get from Elias) don't provide are game-tying or game-winning hits. I'd like to see those.


Mauer's splits:

Leading off an inning ...... 25 for 78, 5 HR, 3B, 4 2B, 5R, 5 RBI, 12K, .321 avg.

Bases loaded...................2 for 6, HR, 7 RBI, 0K, .333 avg.

Scoring position, 2 outs....16 for 39, 3 HR, 23 RBI, 3 2B, 14 BB, 6K, .410 avg.

None on.........................83 for 230, 17 HR, 9 2B, 1 3B, 26 BB, 30K, .361 avg.

Runners on.....................66 for 172, 8 HR, 62 RBI, 12 2B, 26BB, 21K, .384 avg.

Scoring position..............34 for 92, 6 HR, 55 RBI, 7 2B, 21BB, 14K, .370 avg.

vs. the Yanks ................10 for 29, 3 HR, 5 RBI, 2B, 4BB, 4K, .345 avg.

in August .....................43 for 107, 7 HR, 22 RBI, 6 2B, 12BB, 8K, .402 avg.



Mark Teixeira's splits:

Bases loaded ..........................2 for 8, 2 2B, 8 RBI, BB, 3K, .250 avg.

Scoring position 2 outs .............17 for 49, 2 HR, 22 RBI, 3 2B, 13BB, 10K, .347 avg.

Leading off inning ....................24 for 75, 7 HR, 6 2B, 5BB, 11K, .320 avg.

None on ................................73 for 247, 21 HR, 17 2B, 27BB, 48K, .296 avg.

Runners on ............................67 for 247, 10 HR, 76 RBI, 18 2B, 43BB, 41K, .271 avg.

Scoring position ......................39 for 139, 4 HR, 59 RBI, 12 2B, 33BB, 28K, .281

vs. Minnesota..........................14 for 29, 4 HR, 11 RBI, 2 2B, 3BB, 5K, .483 avg.

in August ...............................30 for 102, 5 HR, 22 RBI, 7 2B, 16BB, 18K, .294 avg.

Minnesota team record: August 12-14. 2nd half record 19-21. Mauer hits well when the team wins and loses. He's a freaking beast on offense.

Yankees team record: August 19-7. 2nd half 30-11.

The difference between Mauer and Texiera is that Tex carries his team to wins.
When the Yankees win Tex hits: .316 .424 .588 1.012 OPS+ 184
When the Yankees lose Tex hits:.227 .300 .464 .764 OPS+ 84

As Tex goes, so go the Yankees. That's the mark of a most valuable player. Mauer's monster season is a mark of greatness. Superb consistency.

 

[zeke12]

Or they mean that Teixeira can't hit good pitching.

Seriously, arguing for Teixeira is patently absurd.

His only good numbers are HR (31) and RBI (97). 19 of his homers have come in a wiffle ball park, and he still only leads Mauer by 6, despite Mauer missing a month. He only leads Mauer by 18 RBI despite having Derek Jeter -- and his .396 OBP -- hitting in front of him. In contrast, Mauer has had Nick Punto, Alexi Casilla and Brendan Harris hitting in front of him. Otherwise, Mauer leads him by 90 points in BA, 58 points in OBP, 71 points in slugging an 131 points in OPS.

It's. Not. Close.

 

[Oz]

The difference between Mauer and Texiera is that Tex carries his team to wins.
When the Yankees win Tex hits: .316 .424 .588 1.012 OPS+ 184
When the Yankees lose Tex hits:.227 .300 .464 .764 OPS+ 84

As Tex goes, so go the Yankees. That's the mark of a most valuable player. Mauer's monster season is a mark of greatness. Superb consistency.

Uh, I thought as A-Rod goes, so go the Yankees. After all, Teixeira's bat didn't start to warm up -- and the Yankees didn't really start to win games -- until A-Rod came back from the hip injury. After all, Teixeira hit only .200/.367/.371/.738 during April, with A-Rod out.

So technically, A-Rod could be seen as the Yankees MVP. Mauer is the AL MVP, easily.

 

[outofplace]

The difference between Mauer and Texiera is that Tex carries his team to wins.
When the Yankees win Tex hits: .316 .424 .588 1.012 OPS+ 184
When the Yankees lose Tex hits:.227 .300 .464 .764 OPS+ 84

As Tex goes, so go the Yankees. That's the mark of a most valuable player. Mauer's monster season is a mark of greatness. Superb consistency.

Uh, I thought as A-Rod goes, so go the Yankees. After all, Teixeira's bat didn't start to warm up -- and the Yankees didn't really start to win games -- until A-Rod came back from the hip injury. After all, Teixeira hit only .200/.367/.371/.738 during April, with A-Rod out.

So technically, A-Rod could be seen as the Yankees MVP. Mauer is the AL MVP, easily.

Of course, that was also about the same time that Teixeira always gets going. Sure, Rodriguez's return was a factor, but I think perhaps it has been overstated given Teixeira's history of sucking for at least a month every season and then turning it on some time every May.

And Zeke, I don't think that's fair to say that Teixeira's only good numbers are his home runs and RBI. Those are the ones that stand out, but it's not like he hasn't gotten on base (.381 OBP) or scored runs (79).

I wouldn't give it to him over Mauer, but I could easily see him second.

The arguments regarding team record are tiresome. It's simple. Do we want to judge these players by what they do or what their teammates do? The former seems more appropriate to me. It would be one thing if the Twins were in last place, but they're not. They are in contention.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

It's a good thing Mauer is going to win this award in a runaway, because the Jeter vx. Teixiera arguments would lead to Internet bloodshed at SportsJournalists.com
Take today's game as case in point. Jeter has two hits, a walk, and has scored three runs for the leadoff spot. Tex has one hit, but it was a three-run homer to blow it open at 8-2.
Who was more valuable today? Also, how we should bring peace to the Middle East and what is reality?

 

[buckweaver]

The one thing that ESPN's splits (which they say they get from Elias) don't provide are game-tying or game-winning hits. I'd like to see those.

That's because MLB specifically did away with them in the late 1980s. (Remember the GW-RBI stat that used to appear on the backs of Topps cards? Nobody keeps that stat anymore.)

There was never a consensus on what a "game-winning" RBI was. Was it the RBI groundout in the first inning of a 5-0 game? Was it the three-run homer that gave a team a 5-2 lead it didn't relinquish in an 8-6 win -- or was it whoever drove in the 7th run, like a GWG in hockey?

Baseball-Reference, as usual, does a better job breaking down the splits you're looking for: there's a category for "late and close," another for "tie game," another for "1-run difference," etc.

Here's Mauer's: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=mauerjo01&year=2009&t=b#clutc
(In "late and close" situations, he's hitting .322/.437/.492, 3 HR, 11 RBI, 11 BB, 7 K in 71 plate appearances.)

Here's Tex's: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=teixema01&year=2009&t=b#clutc
(In "late and close" situations, he's hitting .282/.350/.592, 5 HR, 20 RBI, 8 BB, 16 K in 80 plate appearances.)

 

[Songbird]

That's kind of what I was looking for, the "late and close" stat.

 

[BYH]

Mark Teixeira? Seriously? People are making cases for Mark Teixeira?

 

[Songbird]

I'm not really on that boat. But people here seem to like him for MVP, so I tossed out a few stats.

 

[BYH]

There is no earthly reason why Teixeira should be in the top three, never mind the winner.

Mauer
Morales
Jeter/M. Young

 

[zeke12]

And Zeke, I don't think that's fair to say that Teixeira's only good numbers are his home runs and RBI. Those are the ones that stand out, but it's not like he hasn't gotten on base (.381 OBP) or scored runs (79).

OK, fair enough, they aren't bad, but with 31 homers, I hope you score 80 runs. And the OBP is OK, but balance it with 89 Ks (to 51 for Mauer), and then throw in the fact that Mauer's OBP is 60 points higher, and, well, there simply is no comparison.

You are right that those numbers are all good. They just don't compare to Mauer's.

 

[BYH]

Yeah but Mauer would have whiffed 38 times in April.

 

[RickStain]

strikeouts aren't worse than other outs. *ducks*