al mvp race

[shockey]

didn't want to interrupt the flow on the rice discussion on the endless baseball thread so i started anew.

been hearing plenty lately how the amazing joe mauer is the front-runner, to which i ask, "why?" yes, his batting average is extraordinary. but his power numbers -- homers, doubles, rbi -- are certainly solid but nothing extraordinary.

most importantly, to me, is he's on a third-place team with little shot at the playoffs. when did the standing of your team lose its importance in mvp voting?

yes, i realize there have been several exceptions, most recently when a-rod won the mvp in texas when they sucked but his power numbers were ridiculous.

i have plenty of love for mauer, believe me. he's a marvelous young hitter and an excellent catcher as well, a rare combo. but given his team's standing, i don't see where his year demands mvp attention.

am i wrong? ??? ??? ???

 

[RickStain]

If we insist on not giving the MVP to non-playoff teams, we shouldn't give it to teams who cruise to the playoffs either. It would have to be the best player on the team who made the playoffs by the narrowest margin.

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

Jeter will receive the Lifetime Achievement Award MVP.

 

[MartinEnigmatica]

Mauer's home run total might not lead the league, but you have to consider A) he hasn't played the entire season and B) for a guy who had never hit more than 13 homers in a season, he's doing pretty well for himself.

Edited for clarity

 

[93Devil]

If we insist on not giving the MVP to non-playoff teams, we shouldn't give it to teams who cruise to the playoffs either. It would have to be the best player on the team who made the playoffs by the narrowest margin.

Sorry, Rick, but that is insane.

 

[dreunc1542]

If we insist on not giving the MVP to non-playoff teams, we shouldn't give it to teams who cruise to the playoffs either. It would have to be the best player on the team who made the playoffs by the narrowest margin.

Sorry, Rick, but that is insane.

It seemed to me Rick was being facetious.

 

[93Devil]

Jeter will receive the Lifetime Achievement Award MVP.

I think Teixeira will take to many of his votes.

 

[shockey]

If we insist on not giving the MVP to non-playoff teams, we shouldn't give it to teams who cruise to the playoffs either. It would have to be the best player on the team who made the playoffs by the narrowest margin.

i'd have less of an issue with that than mauer getting it. although i disagree that a player on a team that "cruises" should not get it. it is entirely possible that one player on that team could have been the reason the team eventually "cruised," i'd argue.

again, it's the old semantics debate. i like my most "valuable" player to be a guy largely responsible for his team winning something.

a-rod, when he won that year in texas, would not have received my vote, either. he may have been the "player of the year," perhaps. as mauer might be this year, though i'm still not convinced.

a-rod put up huge numbers in a totally pressure-free environment, when everyone seems to acknowledge he's at his best.

i'm not saying mauer is the same, just that "valuable" is the word that hangs me up.

 

[shockey]

Mauer's power numbers might not lead the league, but you have to consider A) he hasn't played the entire season and B) for a guy who had never hit more than 13 homers in a season, he's doing pretty well for himself.

no question. but still not mvp numbers anywhere across the board except b.a.

 

[93Devil]

If guy leads the league in OPS (which Mauer is running away with I think), then he is deserving as anyone.

 

[shockey]

If guy leads the league in OPS (which Mauer is running away with I think), then he is deserving as anyone.

why?

 

[Flying Headbutt]

Because where would the Twins be without him? They're at least sort of in the hunt. The idea that you have to will your team to the playoffs is a bit silly to me. Outside of Mauer and Morneau, there's not much in the Twins lineup worth a damn. It's not barren, but it's not good. And yet they're in the hunt in a tough division, albeit at the back of the chase.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

At this point (we have a quarter of the season after all) nobody could possibly ***** if either Jeter or Mauer was selected. They're both having amazing seasons.
Historically, catchers have a leg up on the MVP for big offensive years. Look at 1998, when Pudge beat Pedro's unbelievable year and Manny's 165 RBI.

 

[spnited]

If I had a vote, right now it would be:

Mauer
Teixeira
Jeter

Teixeira is the MVP of the Yankees, despite what the Jeter lovers think.
Jeter has had a great year, he'd also have about 6-8 throwing errors if he didn't have Teixeira saving him (and A-Rod, too)

 

[fishwrapper]

Just throwing it out there: Bobby Abreu deserves a little consideration.

 

[93Devil]

If guy leads the league in OPS (which Mauer is running away with I think), then he is deserving as anyone.

why?

Because it measures your total success as a hitter. If you have a poor leadoff man ahead of you (or if you are the leadoff man) it charts how many bases you collect per at bat. And going from first home by advancing to the next base four times is how you score a run.

I cannot think of a more fair hitting stat.

Heck, I would rather have a hitter that hits 80 extra-base hits but only 20 home runs than a player that hits 60 extra-base hits with 35 home runs.

 

[93Devil]

Just throwing it out there: Bobby Abreu deserves a little consideration.

No ****.

And does anyone on the East Coast have any clue who Morales is?

Abreu, Figgins (94 runs!!!) and Morales all have insane stat lines.

 

[Oz]

most importantly, to me, is he's on a third-place team with little shot at the playoffs. when did the standing of your team lose its importance in mvp voting?

I think it's sometimes been overstated. Take away Mauer from the Twins and are they even in the hunt for the AL Central for much of this season? If not, that makes Mauer a pretty valuable player in my books.

Now let's look at Teixeira -- are the Yankees in first place in the AL East without him, with the seven other guys who will likely finish with 20-plus home runs?

 

[MartinEnigmatica]

Mauer's power numbers might not lead the league, but you have to consider A) he hasn't played the entire season and B) for a guy who had never hit more than 13 homers in a season, he's doing pretty well for himself.

no question. but still not mvp numbers anywhere across the board except b.a.

I see your point that individual improvements don't really count for MVP arguments, but Mauer also leads the league in on-base percentage, which you could discard if you want.
But, Mauer leads the majors in getting on base. No one is getting on at a better rate than him which, if you want to discard, fine. But it's helping his team whether he hits a homer, singles or walks. As FH points out, other than Morneau, no one in that lineup's really worth a damn except Kubel and perhaps Cuddyer. Someone's got to get on base to score the runs.
He also leads the AL in slugging. So while he doesn't lead in homer totals, a good percentage of his hits are going for more than singles. He's being very productive.
There's probably an argument out there against him for not playing the entire season. While he's been a monster in his games played, he has missed some games. It sucks, but it's true. I don't think he's a lock, but I do think he should be given more credit than simply having a good average.

 

[spnited]

Actually, devil, slugging percentage is the measure of how many bases you collect per at-bat (total bases divided by at-bats).
On-base pct. measure how often you get on base (hits + BB + HBP divided by total plate appearances).

I'm not certain what is accomplished by adding those two to get OPS when you can just as easily look and see that Mauer has a high OBP and a very good slugging pct.

And in case youo haven't noticed, Mauer leads the AL in BA, OBP, slugging and (obviously) OPS.