Age working against you

[SEeditor]

Taken from another thread on here, let me ask another question.

What are the chances that a veteran journalist -- someone in their early 40s -- with two decades of experience, but lacking the degree to go with it can actually find his/her way back to a mid-size to metro newspaper as a general assignment or beat reporter? I used to work for a 70,000-plus paper before relocating for family purposes. I worked there for nearly eight years -- all of that on the copy desk. I've since worked as a freelancer and as sports editor for a pair of weeklies where it's a one-man act. It's a do-it-all kind of deal -- write, edit, design, etc. My current place of employment is led by a veteran journalist who has served as the copy desk chief at a couple of major metro papers.

I ask my question as I somewhat suspect that the opportunities for those of us up in age are facing a losing battle when faced with younger prospects recently out of college, who may not have the experience but have the know-how and could potentially come at a cheaper rate. That said, I wouldn't be one looking for a huge payday over the opportunity to get back to where I was five years ago before moving or even a bit further.

It should also be noted that I'm back in school as well, though I'm going for a degree that is not journalism.

 

[Drip]

First off, NOTHING BEATS EXPERIENCE. All the degrees and technological know-how means very little if the person with it can't apply it. Nothing is impossible. Keep swinging. You're bound to hit something. Good Luck in your search.

 

[da man]

First off, NOTHING BEATS EXPERIENCE. All the degrees and technological know-how means very little if the person with it can't apply it. Nothing is impossible. Keep swinging. You're bound to hit something. Good Luck in your search.

In theory, you are correct. In practice, at least for the past six or seven years, young and cheap beats experience. In a blowout.

 

[Drip]

First off, NOTHING BEATS EXPERIENCE. All the degrees and technological know-how means very little if the person with it can't apply it. Nothing is impossible. Keep swinging. You're bound to hit something. Good Luck in your search.

In theory, you are correct. In practice, at least for the past six or seven years, young and cheap beats experience. In a blowout.

Which is why this business is where it is today.

 

[Editude]

If you are upfront in the applying process about the lack of a degree, your experience (if the position is a good fit) would be welcomed. What we don't want is finding some George O'Leary discrepancy in the resume; that's an automatic circular file.

 

[Frank_Ridgeway]

The issue almost never comes up, even after I note it on the application form, and the resume says full-time reporter at age 19. If someone wants to be an ass about it, I tell them that in the era just after Watergate there were enough j-school students to replace every working journalist in the nation and that my (lousy) starting salary was the same as my paper was playing the glut of master's degree people from Columbia University. In those days, being promising enough to land a good gig without a degree was a badge of honor. Treat it that way -- it's all in the attitude.

 

[Armchair_QB]

First off, NOTHING BEATS EXPERIENCE. All the degrees and technological know-how means very little if the person with it can't apply it. Nothing is impossible. Keep swinging. You're bound to hit something. Good Luck in your search.

In theory, you are correct. In practice, at least for the past six or seven years, young and cheap beats experience. In a blowout.

You're dead-on on this. Experience has no value. In many cases it's probably a detriment. Young, cheap and easy to manipulate is the ideal candidate.

 

[Drip]

The issue almost never comes up, even after I note it on the application form, and the resume says full-time reporter at age 19. If someone wants to be an ass about it, I tell them that in the era just after Watergate there were enough j-school students to replace every working journalist in the nation and that my (lousy) starting salary was the same as my paper was playing the glut of master's degree people from Columbia University. In those days, being promising enough to land a good gig without a degree was a badge of honor. Treat it that way -- it's all in the attitude.

I agree. Those were the good old days. One of the best journalists I've ever had the opportunity to work with didn't go to college.

 

[Tucsondriver]

Let's not kid ourselves. Young journalists who are more adept at social media and are willing to work for cheap offer editors obvious benefits. But it's not completely hopeless. If you're determined enough, and it sounds like you are, I'd be surprised if something doesn't come your way. That said, if possible, work towards a degree. Great way to broaden your horizons and develop skills and contacts on the road to filling an important hole in your resume that might help you in endeavors outside of journalism you may want to pursue down the road.

 

[KJIM]

The subject isn't necessarily age working against a candidate. It's the lack of a degree.

These days, that's true in *any* field. What the degree is in doesn't matter so much, so long as a candidate has one and can check the box saying so, they're good.

Heck, even Peace Corps' unwritten requirement is to have a degree. At least there, if you have 10 years of experience or so, you can still qualify. At other places, those odds are dwindling.

Employers want candidates who have college degrees. I have no idea why it matters so much, though.

 

[LanceyHoward]

How much of the discrimination against older employees is because of the perception that the older employee is less adept at handling the various software programs than a recent college graduate?

If you are an older candidate I think you need to sell your abilities in whatever electronic environment you are going to work in. Push this in the interview.

 

[Cigar56]

At this point, not having a degree is not going to matter much -- if at all. For many journalism jobs, I am not sure a four-year degree matters no matter what your age is. Sure, some of the elite newspapers like The New York Times and Washington Post will prefer that you have a college degree. But there are countless other papers that simply don't care as long as your background can show you can do the job.

Age really becomes an issue when you reach your mid-fifties. Unfortunately, in today's market that's a tough place to be if you are unemployed.

The big advantage for completing a degree is that it provides options if sports journalism does not work out. Many a sportswriter is now teaching in public schools.

 

[WriteThinking]

How much of the discrimination against older employees is because of the perception that the older employee is less adept at handling the various software programs than a recent college graduate?

If you are an older candidate I think you need to sell your abilities in whatever electronic environment you are going to work in. Push this in the interview.

This is the crux of the matter, and even if it wasn't, your age would be hurting you more than not having a degree.

Otherwise, half of us who are currently out of our former journalism careers...would not be.

It isn't even that older folks can't do the social-media scene well. It's that they, quite honestly, don't have the interest in it -- in spending every waking moment worrying about blogging and tweeting about every little thing, all the time -- in addition to everything involved in all the traditional work of media jobs.

The total constant-ness of the technology, and the job, is what is turning people -- even younger people, once they've lived it for a while -- off to this business. This is especially true when coupled with the fact that most are not well compensated for virtually giving up their lives to the beat, the paper, the job.

Granted, this may not be quite as much of a factor in copy-editing -- the jobs you undoubtedly would be most interested in -- but the fact remains that this industry is now almost entirely for the young. As in, under 30, and no older than 32.

Anything beyond that, and you are perceived as just...old, and probably, out of step and not to be considered as a new hire, unless, as you've found, it's as an editor at a smaller paper.

I really don't even think it has to do with the money or the willingness to work for less anymore, because anyone still in this business, or wanting to be, know the situation when it comes to money and the prevailing lack thereof.

 

[JackS]

It isn't even that older folks can't do the social-media scene well. It's that they, quite honestly, don't have the interest in it -- in spending every waking moment worrying about blogging and tweeting about every little thing, all the time -- in addition to everything involved in all the traditional work of media jobs.

x1000

 

[Drip]

How much of the discrimination against older employees is because of the perception that the older employee is less adept at handling the various software programs than a recent college graduate?

If you are an older candidate I think you need to sell your abilities in whatever electronic environment you are going to work in. Push this in the interview.

This is the crux of the matter, and even if it wasn't, your age would be hurting you more than not having a degree.

Otherwise, half of us who are currently out of our former journalism careers...would not be.

It isn't even that older folks can't do the social-media scene well. It's that they, quite honestly, don't have the interest in it -- in spending every waking moment worrying about blogging and tweeting about every little thing, all the time -- in addition to everything involved in all the traditional work of media jobs.

The total constant-ness of the technology, and the job, is what is turning people -- even younger people, once they've lived it for a while -- off to this business. This is especially true when coupled with the fact that most are not well compensated for virtually giving up their lives to the beat, the paper, the job.

Granted, this may not be quite as much of a factor in copy-editing -- the jobs you undoubtedly would be most interested in -- but the fact remains that this industry is now almost entirely for the young. As in, under 30, and no older than 32.

Anything beyond that, and you are perceived as just...old, and probably, out of step and not to be considered as a new hire, unless, as you've found, it's as an editor at a smaller paper.

I really don't even think it has to do with the money or the willingness to work for less anymore, because anyone still in this business, or wanting to be, know the situation when it comes to money and the prevailing lack thereof.

The kids are running the asylum.

 

[baddecision]

I think there has been more at play here than a simple shift in preference of information-delivery media or a generation gap.

To write -- and, sometimes, to read and comprehend -- a well-written, informative article takes skill, effort and discipline. You have to be curious, you need to understand the "bigger picture," you must have deep-digging interviewing skills, you have to figure out where and how to get the information you need to present a clear, complete and honest report.

Of course, the same is true of thoughtful, informed editing and creative design -- two aspects which have been devalued to the point of being a sad joke by our idiot society.

To tweet and retweet all day long takes almost none of the above. In fact, being under orders to tweet and retweet and post flip-cam headshot video all day makes it difficult and sometimes impossible to get that work done.

The market? It doesn't seem to mind. Would the average person rather cook a fantastic meal or drive through the McDonald's? Billions and billions have been served, to be mindlessly munched down and shat out by the dumbest geniuses in the history of evolution.

 

[Turtle Wexler]

Employers want candidates who have college degrees. I have no idea why it matters so much, though.

Right or wrong, it's an easy line to draw.

If I'm hiring, and I get 200 applications for an opening, I've got to start somewhere to filter through it.

Do you lose great applicants by drawing that college degree line? Absolutely. But you know there are also great candidates in the remaining pool.

 

[podunk press]

It won't be easy. Our last six hires have been younger than 25.

 

[NDJournalist]

It also can work against you if you're younger. Big, big jobs (think NYT) often don't hire people right out of college.

 

[Captain Obvious]

It also can work against you if you're younger. Big, big jobs (think NYT) often don't hire people right out of college.

You're not getting hired at the New York Times by sending in a resume and clips.