9-11-14: Better or worse than 9-12-01?

[Paynendearse]

Better: Bin Laden's dead. Did a questionable deal with Iran.

Worse: We might have made a mess (Bush that is) of Iraq by destabilizing it, but then we trumped that by an early and complete withdrawal (Obama). We've destabilized Libya, backed it in Syria, made a questionable deal with Iran and tried to do it in Egypt, but the Muslim Brotherhood was quickly pushed aside in part by an Army who knows from experience the only way to govern in the Middle East is with a strong hand.

Thoughts?

Sorry, my phone is hell to type on. Bump it to 2015. Can the mods do that?

 

[LongTimeListener]

The Patriots had won zero Super Bowls as of 9-12-01. Therefore we are much worse off.

 

[TyWebb]

The Patriots had won zero Super Bowls as of 9-12-01. Therefore we are much worse off.

And Justin Bieber, the Kardashians, Kanye, the Real Housewives and "bae" weren't things yet. Worse.

 

[Paynendearse]

And Justin Bieber, the Kardashians, Kanye, the Real Housewives and "bae" weren't things yet. Worse.

Well, Miami was still a college football power, the Cowboys sucked and A-Rod wasn't a Yankee, and BALCO was just a good ol' American example of free enterprise.

 

[Stoney]

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We might have made a mess (Bush that is) of Iraq by destabilizing it, but then we trumped that by an early and complete withdrawal (Obama).

I'm not even sure what the trumped clause in the sentence means. But I do know there are no silver linings or flip sides to rationally debate on the issue of the Iraq invasion. An illegal war founded on lies that turned out to be the single dumbest and biggest blunder**** in US foreign policy history, bankrupted our treasury, caused god only knows how many thousands of innocent deaths, and in the end only made the region worse off for everybody except for the ISIS fanatics who arose as a direct consequence of it.

 

[Paynendearse]

I'm not even sure what the trumped clause in the sentence means. But I do know there are no silver linings or flip sides to rationally debate on the issue of the Iraq invasion. A illegal war that turned out to be the biggest blunder**** in US foreign policy history, bankrupted our treasurey, caused god only knows how many thousands of innocent deaths, and in the end only made the region worse off for everybody except for the ISIS fanatics who arose as a direct consequence of it.

But ISIS came about because of a complete vacuum of presence of American soldiers.

 

[LongTimeListener]

This thread came about because of a complete vacuum in your skull.

 

[JackReacher]

This thread is going to be #HotTakeCentral, isn't it?

 

[BitterYoungMatador2]

in 2001 Balco was just that guy on Perfect Strangers.

 

[qtlaw]

I was still in my 30s in '01 so I'll vote for 01. Seriously, at that time Baghdad was the most stable, westernized, secular country in the Middle East, exactly what the US wants right now. Damn shame.

 

[TyWebb]

Well, Miami was still a college football power, the Cowboys sucked and A-Rod wasn't a Yankee, and BALCO was just a good ol' American example of free enterprise.

So ... worse?

 

[cranberry]

I like to think the Ice Bucket Challenge made the world a better place.

 

[Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!!]

I think we are worse off.
The Middle East is a mess, more of mess than it was.
We've wasted billions of dollars ramping up the military and law enforcement (such federal and state Dept. of Homeland Security outfits) in the name "protection," not to mention outfitting local cops with MRAPs, all sort of surplus military toys. There's been little change abroad and I think things at home are worse.
I don't think we are any safer, or any more or less of a threat(or target), to our "enemies than we were 14 years ago.
Plus, many people seeking to get elected continue play on these fears.

Plus, all that **** everybody else said.

 

[Big Circus]

Any particular reason you're wondering about where things stood a year ago?

 

[Stoney]

But ISIS came about because of a complete vacuum of presence of American soldiers.

There were no American soldiers in that region before 2003. And there was no ISIS there before 2003. Indeed, there was no real Islamic terrorist presence at all in Iraq before 2003.

The root source of the problem was not pulling soldiers out, instead it was our insanely ****headed decision to illegally invade for no damn reason in the first place. It was the one secular govt in the region that was successfully keeping the terrorist groups out, so we toppled it so that they could then come pouring in. Brilliant.

 

[I Should Coco]

One thing's for sure: We are a much more divided nation than we were 14 years ago. That's thanks to extremists in both parties, aided greatly by the fracturing of media.

Believe it or not, both elected leaders and the general public could have a meaningful political debate 20 years ago. Not today.

 

[heyabbott]

If W doesn't invade Iraq, none of this ^^^ happens

 

[Armchair_QB]

There were no American soldiers in the region before 2003. And there was no ISIS there before 2003. Indeed, there was no real Islamic terrorist presence at all in Iraq before 2003.

The root source of the problem was not pulling soldiers out, instead it was our insanely ****headed decision to illegally invade for no damn reason in the first place. It was the one secular govt in the region that was successfully keeping the terrorist groups out, so we toppled it so that they could then come pouring in. Brilliant.

Uhhhh... What?

We had bases in Kuwait in Saudi long before 2003.

 

[TigerVols]

In a story that is shockingly not headlined, "Thanks, George Bush," John Hockenberry chimes in...

John Hockenberry: Why I'm done with the 9/11 ritual

 

[Baron Scicluna]

One thing's for sure: We are a much more divided nation than we were 14 years ago. That's thanks to extremists in both parties, aided greatly by the fracturing of media.

Believe it or not, both elected leaders and the general public could have a meaningful political debate 20 years ago. Not today.

We were divided before 9/11. Remind me again which party tried to overturn the will of the American electorate by impeaching the president, something only done one time previously in the country's history, over a trivial matter that had nothing to do with his job?