59th Grammys

[jr/shotglass]

I don't get rap. :)

 

[Alma]

Literally the first post after mine said "I don't listen to black music and I make no apologies about it." I think there are a hell of a lot of black artists that white people are unfamiliar with -- and again, the opposite is true, too.

And I specifically said that the Beyonce thing is weird to me, and I don't see why Adele has to apologize from the stage after winning. Criticism of Beyonce is fine. I'm not sure I get the relevance of how many writers she had, and I'm not sure she does fewer interviews than any other artist of her stature.

Criticism of Beyoncé is really not fine. See Carlos Santana.

She does fewer interviews. She does virtually none.

As for the writers...the praise surrounding the album is in part for its cultural references and depth of lyrics. If it took 72 people to produce that, and the project was simultaneously intensely personal, it just seems odd.

Taylor Swift had I think five writers on 1989. I'm not in love with 1989, but it's hers.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

Criticism of Beyoncé is really not fine. See Carlos Santana.

She does fewer interviews. She does virtually none.

As for the writers...the praise surrounding the album is in part for its cultural references and depth of lyrics. If it took 72 people to produce that, and the project was simultaneously intensely personal, it just seems odd.

Taylor Swift had I think five writers on 1989. I'm not in love with 1989, but it's hers.

Carlos Santana's "criticism" was stupid and demeaning.

I don't go looking for these things, but I don't know that I've seen a Taylor Swift interview. Haven't seen an Adele interview.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

Why are Tyler Perry's movies ****ty? If they make a ****load of money - which they do - what makes em ****ty in content?

Because they are formulaic, "ha ha, that's a guy in a dress" comedies. I don't begrudge him his success at all. There's obviously a substantial audience for it, and there's probably a argument to be made that the comedic sensibilities of white and black audiences are largely different.

But I'm not going to buy any argument that commerce is a sign of artistic merit.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

If correctly pointing out that 13.2% of the United States is black, and black acts currently make up 65 percent of Billboard's top 20, then count me aged.

65% of the top 20 is black artists, and the top Grammys go to white artists the vast majority of the time. That's the issue. (And really, I have no dog in the Adele vs. Beyonce fight. I thought David Bowie's record was the best thing I heard last year.)

And Shottie, you made reference to this in a post that is now gone, but let me clarify my point that you were addressing: when I comment on the fact that the Grammys have a long, pretty undeniable history of ignoring black artists, and another poster -- not you -- responds with a post about reparations, earmarks, rappers should get their own hall in Compton, and career advice for LeBron James, that's some breathtaking racial bull****. I called it code, but really, it's barely that.

 

[YankeeFan]

Criticism of Beyoncé is really not fine. See Carlos Santana.

She does fewer interviews. She does virtually none.

As for the writers...the praise surrounding the album is in part for its cultural references and depth of lyrics. If it took 72 people to produce that, and the project was simultaneously intensely personal, it just seems odd.

Taylor Swift had I think five writers on 1989. I'm not in love with 1989, but it's hers.

Are you exaggerating? There aren't literally 72 people with writing credits, are there?

How many were there really?

 

[Alma]

Are you exaggerating? There aren't literally 72 people with writing credits, are there?

How many were there really?

72.

Here's an article kinda sorta justifying it.

Does Beyoncé Write Her Own Music? And Does It Really Matter?

 

[Alma]

Because they are formulaic, "ha ha, that's a guy in a dress" comedies. I don't begrudge him his success at all. There's obviously a substantial audience for it, and there's probably a argument to be made that the comedic sensibilities of white and black audiences are largely different.

But I'm not going to buy any argument that commerce is a sign of artistic merit.

Tyler Perry has made a lot of non-Madea movies. A lot. Including movies that aren't comedies.

I'm not stumping for the guy, either. But he's basically the most commercially successful black director in the business, and he tends to make movies geared for black Americans. He never gets big awards or is even nominated for them. It doesn't bother white people. Why?

 

[SpeedTchr]

Music and film and theater awards shows are stupid. There, I said it. Who the **** can say that one song or album or film or play is any better than another one, enough to crown it the year's best? They are as useless as sports awards (looking at you, Heisman and Lombardi, and others) based on anything other than quantifiable achievement.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

Tyler Perry has made a lot of non-Madea movies. A lot. Including movies that aren't comedies.

I'm not stumping for the guy, either. But he's basically the most commercially successful black director in the business, and he tends to make movies geared for black Americans. He never gets big awards or is even nominated for them. It doesn't bother white people. Why?

It doesn't bother white people because maybe 3 white people in history have paid to see a Tyler Perry movie. His films seem to be targeted and marketed to strictly black audience, and he is generally viewed as a low-brow director. He can make serious movies, but they'll always be "by the man who brought you 'Madea.'" I mean, Adam Sandler makes a lot of very successful movies, and not all of them are comedies, but I think even Adam Sandler fans get it when they're not nominated for Oscars.

 

[CD Boogie]

You're barely a human being.

Sorry snowflake

 

[CD Boogie]

Two things, without addressing the code littered through there.

1) Films aimed at black audiences tend to make a ****load of money. If it were a business question there would be a lot more "black films." (Even the ****ty ones. Tyler Perry's last Madea movie grossed $75 million.)

2) It's really not a matter of making "black films." It's also largely a matter of including black people in the process. There's a big difference between creating a black role and casting a black person in a role.

The code? JFC, sorry I triggered your sensitivity to reading racism within realism

 

[CD Boogie]

Literally the first post after mine said "I don't listen to black music and I make no apologies about it." I think there are a hell of a lot of black artists that white people are unfamiliar with -- and again, the opposite is true, too.

And I specifically said that the Beyonce thing is weird to me, and I don't see why Adele has to apologize from the stage after winning. Criticism of Beyonce is fine. I'm not sure I get the relevance of how many writers she had, and I'm not sure she does fewer interviews than any other artist of her stature.

First off, I said I don't listen to rap or a lot of traditional black music. I didn't say I don't listen to all black music. See the difference? Bc there's a big one. But you read into it what you wanted to read into it. Bc the code...

 

[Alma]

Carlos Santana's "criticism" was stupid and demeaning.

I don't go looking for these things, but I don't know that I've seen a Taylor Swift interview. Haven't seen an Adele interview.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/20/fashion/beyonce-is-seen-but-not-heard.html

Beyoncé did do an interview for Elle last year, which appears to have been the trade off for the mag to shill her athletic wear line:

Beyoncé Wants to Change the Conversation

I don't go looking for these things, either, but, again, the amount of excuse making and hand wringing over her not winning an award strikes
me as emblematic. Some white people, IMO, have a ****ty habit of thinking racially progressive behavior is shilling for a drop dead gorgeous woman who has a long history of appropriating the struggles and words of others for her own artistic journey.

Santana's criticism is inartful, and in these postmodern times, when it's hard to make a criticism without obscuring it with 12 faint praises and 14 clarifications, being inartful is a social and cultural crime. We read too much into the how sometimes, and it's punched big holes in the national conversation. We've become so worried about being inartful that we created a vacuum of leadership in authentic conversation, and half of America happily elected a man not only inartful, but brutal in his conversation in part because he said things however he damn well pleased and voters live vicariously through it.

But the subtext of Santana's point - that Beyoncé the musician is more about her celebrity, stunning beauty and dancing skills than her actual singing talent - is not fundamentally demeaning.

 

[MisterCreosote]

I don't listen to rap or a lot of traditional black music and I make no freaking apologies about it. Why isn't there a Rap Hall of Fame? Put it in Compton, gentrify the area :)

Beyonce is barely even black. She certainly has the skin tone to be safe for a lot of white folks. I mean, she isn't Nina Simone, for instance -- and can't sing nearly as well, either.

People are gonna ***** about the Oscars, too. How black artists aren't represented, how projects don't get greenlighted. Whatever. Most black people I know don't listen to any so-called white music and they're proud of it. Wouldn't want to be seen as a cornball. Hell, I work with a college educated black woman and we were at a work social playing Catchphrase and she had no idea who Ozzy Osbourne is. How is that possible except by willful ignorance.

At a certain point, the PC bull**** goes too far. Ya don't have to constantly reach across to find commonalities in everything. Celebrate the differences. Know that people -- artists, especially -- aren't judged by equal standards.

Black artists aren't going to get a fair shake at the Grammy's -- so stop going to the Grammy's and complaining about it.

 

[CD Boogie]

Now there's some people who know truth when it's spoken

 

[TyWebb]

Beyonce is barely even black.

And here I was thinking you were just a misogynist. I underestimated you and I apologize for that. Won't happen again.

 

[CD Boogie]

And here I was thinking you were just a misogynist. I underestimated you and I apologize for that. Won't happen again.

My girlfriend is darker than Beyonce. Skin tone. Widely acceptable to many of the whites. Guess we can't address people's appearances since they don't factor in their success or how they are perceived....