59th Grammys

[PCLoadLetter]

The Beyonce thing has been weird for me. The idea that Adele has to apologize from the stage... I don't get it. In a large sense, though, I think it's a sign of how racially segregated music has become, how screwed up the voting process is, and it's a reminder of how utterly worthless the Grammys are. Let me bullet point a few things, in lieu of forcing myself to compose a coherent argument:

• The Grammys are racist as ****. Any glance at the list of past winners makes that obvious. But, that doesn't mean that any time someone other than Beyonce wins a Grammy it's racism, which seems to be the response. (Still, Macklemore winning over Kendrick Lamar a few years ago speaks volumes.)
• The music industry became horribly segregated in the early 70s, when FM came along and DJs decided "album rock" meant "white people." The long term result is that white people are largely unfamiliar with black artists, and vice versa. It means successful hip hop artists have virtually no shot at the top awards unless there is an almost unprecedented crossover success (Like "Hey Ya!") The segregation is also why every time a black person is nominated for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, people whine that it isn't rock.
• The Grammys reward people who make music that appeals to people who don't give a **** about music. Adele and Taylor Swift are great examples: they appeal to people who don't like music, but will buy their CD at Costco on the off chance that they find themselves in a social situation when owning a CD might be beneficial. (Not a shot at Adele or Taylor Swift, either. There are certainly music fans who like them. But they're crossed over to soccer moms in a way Beyonce has not.)
• Worth remembering: the Grammys have always, always been ****. To expect different is a waste of time. Go back and look at the winners over time. You would swear the great, dominant, groundbreaking rock act of the late 60s and early 70s was The Fifth Dimension. Take the show for what it is -- a series of sometimes pretty entertaining performances, interrupted by celebrities handing trophies to boring, irrelevant white people.

 

[CD Boogie]

The Beyonce thing has been weird for me. The idea that Adele has to apologize from the stage... I don't get it. In a large sense, though, I think it's a sign of how racially segregated music has become, how screwed up the voting process is, and it's a reminder of how utterly worthless the Grammys are. Let me bullet point a few things, in lieu of forcing myself to compose a coherent argument:

• The Grammys are racist as ****. Any glance at the list of past winners makes that obvious. But, that doesn't mean that any time someone other than Beyonce wins a Grammy it's racism, which seems to be the response. (Still, Macklemore winning over Kendrick Lamar a few years ago speaks volumes.)
• The music industry became horribly segregated in the early 70s, when FM came along and DJs decided "album rock" meant "white people." The long term result is that white people are largely unfamiliar with black artists, and vice versa. It means successful hip hop artists have virtually no shot at the top awards unless there is an almost unprecedented crossover success (Like "Hey Ya!") The segregation is also why every time a black person is nominated for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, people whine that it isn't rock.
• The Grammys reward people who make music that appeals to people who don't give a **** about music. Adele and Taylor Swift are great examples: they appeal to people who don't like music, but will buy their CD at Costco on the off chance that they find themselves in a social situation when owning a CD might be beneficial. (Not a shot at Adele or Taylor Swift, either. There are certainly music fans who like them. But they're crossed over to soccer moms in a way Beyonce has not.)
• Worth remembering: the Grammys have always, always been ****. To expect different is a waste of time. Go back and look at the winners over time. You would swear the great, dominant, groundbreaking rock act of the late 60s and early 70s was The Fifth Dimension. Take the show for what it is -- a series of sometimes pretty entertaining performances, interrupted by celebrities handing trophies to boring, irrelevant white people.

I don't listen to rap or a lot of traditional black music and I make no freaking apologies about it. Why isn't there a Rap Hall of Fame? Put it in Compton, gentrify the area :)

Beyonce is barely even black. She certainly has the skin tone to be safe for a lot of white folks. I mean, she isn't Nina Simone, for instance -- and can't sing nearly as well, either.

People are gonna ***** about the Oscars, too. How black artists aren't represented, how projects don't get greenlighted. Whatever. Most black people I know don't listen to any so-called white music and they're proud of it. Wouldn't want to be seen as a cornball. Hell, I work with a college educated black woman and we were at a work social playing Catchphrase and she had no idea who Ozzy Osbourne is. How is that possible except by willful ignorance.

At a certain point, the PC bull**** goes too far. Ya don't have to constantly reach across to find commonalities in everything. Celebrate the differences. Know that people -- artists, especially -- aren't judged by equal standards.

Black artists aren't going to get a fair shake at the Grammy's -- so stop going to the Grammy's and complaining about it.

 

[Chef2]

Beyonce is barely even black.

Oh, the night shift will get a kick out of this.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

Somehow we've reached the point where acknowledging black people is "PC bull****."

 

[CD Boogie]

Somehow we've reached the point where acknowledging black people is "PC bull****."

Depends on what ya mean by acknowledge. I am not for affirmative action, reparations or making sure 10 percent of the population has some earmarked share of movie projects or awards. Ya want more black film projects, fund a studio and put your efforts there. Hoping white guys like Harvey Weinstein and Scott Rudin care enough to fund your projects is wishful thinking. At base they're mainly businessmen. So instead of lebron becoming the next Jordan and owning a team, he should become the next bob Evans. Ya know, without the coke dealing

 

[dixiehack]

Jesus, Al Campanis, you gonna tell us next the blacks don't have buoyancy to be good swimmers?

Racist, sexist dip**** fossil.

 

[jr/shotglass]

Somehow we've reached the point where acknowledging black people is "PC bull****."

Ain't no guilt like white liberal guilt.

 

[CD Boogie]

Jesus, Al Campanis, you gonna tell us next the blacks don't have buoyancy to be good swimmers?

Racist, sexist dip**** fossil.

I hope you're not referring to me bc nothing I said was sexist or racist.

 

[jr/shotglass]

Just smile and wave, CD. It's the only way to avoid racist accusations on some days.

 

[CD Boogie]

Just smile and wave, CD. It's the only way to avoid racist accusations on some days.

No way, I was called a fossil. Agism is not OK!

 

[jr/shotglass]

If correctly pointing out that 13.2% of the United States is black, and black acts currently make up 65 percent of Billboard's top 20, then count me aged.

 

[User 149557]

Beyonce is barely even black.

You're barely a human being.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

Ain't no guilt like white liberal guilt.

Nothing like people who finally feel like they have permission to let their inner asshole fly.

 

[Alma]

The long term result is that white people are largely unfamiliar with black artists, and vice versa.

With whom are white people unfamiliar? You can listen to nearly any song in the world online. Lemonade debuted on HBO. Any person who follows music criticism is hit with a constant barrage of write ups on artists from many genres. There is no systemic plot to keep white listeners from black artists that anyone with a streaming music account can't obliterate in an hour.

I've seen Lemonade. I've seen a lot of movies in my life - more than just about anyone I know - and that includes a lot of movies made by, about and for black Americans. Lemonade is fine. It's interesting and at times visually arresting. But it's kind of disjointed and,
in the middle, there's a song where Beyoncé and Jay-Z - the unseen villain of the first half of the movie - are, and there's no other word for it- lovey-dovey in a living room/studio, and it's like every airbrushed, celebrity have-it-all fantasy that they all peddle.

The album needed 72 writers. Beyoncé barely does any interviews anymore, and, because she's never in a position to explain her work, criticism of her work is seemingly verboten. As a former reporter, that strikes me odd.

Doesn't it strike you as odd?

No art is so far beyond reproach that any criticism of it is deemed sexist or racist.

 

[jr/shotglass]

Nothing like people who finally feel like they have permission to let their inner asshole fly.

One doesn't necessarily equal the other. And political correctness does go overboard sometimes.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

Depends on what ya mean by acknowledge. I am not for affirmative action, reparations or making sure 10 percent of the population has some earmarked share of movie projects or awards. Ya want more black film projects, fund a studio and put your efforts there. Hoping white guys like Harvey Weinstein and Scott Rudin care enough to fund your projects is wishful thinking. At base they're mainly businessmen. So instead of lebron becoming the next Jordan and owning a team, he should become the next bob Evans. Ya know, without the coke dealing

Two things, without addressing the code littered through there.

1) Films aimed at black audiences tend to make a ****load of money. If it were a business question there would be a lot more "black films." (Even the ****ty ones. Tyler Perry's last Madea movie grossed $75 million.)

2) It's really not a matter of making "black films." It's also largely a matter of including black people in the process. There's a big difference between creating a black role and casting a black person in a role.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

One doesn't necessarily equal the other. And political correctness does go overboard sometimes.

Doesn't necessarily equal the other... but usually does. And sure as hell did there.

 

[Alma]

Two things, without addressing the code littered through there.

1) Films aimed at black audiences tend to make a ****load of money. If it were a business question there would be a lot more "black films." (Even the ****ty ones. Tyler Perry's last Madea movie grossed $75 million.)

2) It's really not a matter of making "black films." It's also largely a matter of including black people in the process. There's a big difference between creating a black role and casting a black person in a role.

Why are Tyler Perry's movies ****ty? If they make a ****load of money - which they do - what makes em ****ty in content?

 

[PCLoadLetter]

With whom are white people unfamiliar? You can listen to nearly any song in the world online. Lemonade debuted on HBO. Any person who follows music criticism is hit with a constant barrage of write ups on artists from many genres. There is no systemic plot to keep white listeners from black artists that anyone with a streaming music account can't obliterate in an hour.

I've seen Lemonade. I've seen a lot of movies in my life - more than just about anyone I know - and that includes a lot of movies made by, about and for black Americans. Lemonade is fine. It's interesting and at times visually arresting. But it's kind of disjointed and,
in the middle, there's a song where Beyoncé and Jay-Z - the unseen villain of the first half of the movie - are, and there's no other word for it- lovey-dovey in a living room/studio, and it's like every airbrushed, celebrity have-it-all fantasy that they all peddle.

The album needed 72 writers. Beyoncé barely does any interviews anymore, and, because she's never in a position to explain her work, criticism of her work is seemingly verboten. As a former reporter, that strikes me odd.

Doesn't it strike you as odd?

No art is so far beyond reproach that any criticism of it is deemed sexist or racist.

Literally the first post after mine said "I don't listen to black music and I make no apologies about it." I think there are a hell of a lot of black artists that white people are unfamiliar with -- and again, the opposite is true, too.

And I specifically said that the Beyonce thing is weird to me, and I don't see why Adele has to apologize from the stage after winning. Criticism of Beyonce is fine. I'm not sure I get the relevance of how many writers she had, and I'm not sure she does fewer interviews than any other artist of her stature.

 

[Alma]

Because if anyone questions race or quotas or any inequity between the two, it's racism presented as "code."

There's why you can't have an honest conversation about it.

And frankly, I'm tired of comfortable white guys having a contest to see who can act the most color-blind.

I think there's something to working through the ways in which white Americans can kind of be clueless to the black American experience.i go to a largely white church, for example, and I've asked before: Why do white Christians and black Christians, who worship the same God, come to such different conclusions on who to vote for?

But suggesting any criticism of Beyoncé is a byproduct of systemic racism is not that.