2014 World Series thread

[Dick Whitman]

What does everyone think of having a separate World Series thread that starts today? Or should we confine it to the 2014 thread?

Just an idea.

 

[Songbird]

Better this way.

'85, Game 6, 9th inning.

"Cardinals 3 outs away from giving Whitey Herzog a second world championship in four seasons. And time is called ... "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iL_W9MucEk

 

[Songbird]

Ball's in Worrell's glove.

 

[RecoveringJournalist]

My two favorite teams.

The Giants are my team. But as a kid, I hated the A's so much that I became a huge Royals fan. George Brett was my favorite player as a kid. The 1985 World Series was one of my favorite sports memories of my life.

I'm guessing 99 percent of people who aren't from Northern California are rooting for the Royals and I don't blame them for a second. I will not be upset at all if the Royals win.

Go Giants!

 

[Armchair_QB]

Ball's in Worrell's glove.

Good call.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Madison Bumgarner is working on a World Series streak of 15 scoreless innings.

The record is 33 2/3 innings by Whitey Ford. So Bumgarner should get there by Game 1 of the 2016 Series.

--I wouldn't even mind if the Royals won. It would be that cool. But I think the Giants have a very large pitching advantage in Games 1 and 5, and they have a deeper bullpen although the Royals' last three guys are much better. I say the Series goes back to Kansas City but the Giants win in six.

 

[Chef2]

Ball's in Worrell's glove.

Good call.

Safe, safe, safe.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Madison Bumgarner is working on a World Series streak of 15 scoreless innings.

The record is 33 2/3 innings by Whitey Ford. So Bumgarner should get there by Game 1 of the 2016 Series.

--I wouldn't even mind if the Royals won. It would be that cool. But I think the Giants have a very large pitching advantage in Games 1 and 5, and they have a deeper bullpen although the Royals' last three guys are much better. I say the Series goes back to Kansas City but the Giants win in six.

Assuming a Giants win, they would have to be the absolute most nondescript dynasty in sports history, no?

 

[LongTimeListener]

Wait. Now we're TOO sexy?

 

[Vombatus]

Rooting for KC to sweep and go 12-0.

But if they lose one, I am switching over to SF in 6.

 

[Gehrig]

The Royals remind me of another compilation of under-achievers to reach the World Series: 1988 Los Angeles Dodgers.

C Mike Scioscia - 81 OPS+ but his contribution was clearly behind the plate, framing pitches and handling the pitching staff, has gone on to be a top-tier manager.
1b Franklin Stubbs - 92 OPS+ and -0.6 dWAR
2b Steve Sax - 94 OPS+, swiped 42 bases, was the team's spark plug
3b Jeff Hamilton - 79 OPS+, dreadful defensive third baseman
SS Alfredo Griffin - 50 OPS+, on the bright side he was not clearly the worst defensive SS in the game
Lf Kirk Gibson - 148 OPS+ NL MVP, hobbled heart of the franchise
Cf John Shelby - didn't hit for average or power, didn't steal many bases, was never confused for a gold glove center fielder
Rf Mike Marshall - 118 OPS+, had extra-base power in his bat

Bench: Some players made valuable contributions like then 38-year-old catcher Rick Dempsey, who provided power off the bench. Mickey Hatcher filled in all over the diamond and almost hit .300. Pedro Guerrero was by far the team's best hitter, right until 16 August when he was traded for southpaw John Tudor.

And the starting pitching staff had some names (Tudor, Sutton, Valenzuela) but only one true ace NL Cy Young Orel Hershiser. But look at the bullpen and you start to see some similarities.

Alejandro Pena: 94.1 IP, 1.91 ERA, 12 SV
Brian Holton: 84.2 IP, 1.70 ERA
Jesse Orrosco, 53 IP, 2.72 ERA, 9 SV
Jay Howell: 65 IP, 2.08 ERA, 21 SV

As an aside, then super prospect, 20-year-old, Ramon Martinez, was left off the WS roster. Ramon split time between the majors and minors. As an Albuquerque Duke, Ramon posted a 2.76 ERA, went 5-2 and K'd 49 in 58 IP, fairly impressive for a guy pitching in Triple-A and over six years younger than his average competitor. Meanwhile, his little brother, 18-year-old Pedro, pitched his first professional ball for the Great Falls Dodgers of the Pioneer League going 8-3 and fanning 82 in 77 innings.

If the Royals win the World Series, and I hope they do, they'll be the worst collection of players to do since the '88 Dodgers. But ... what makes a team? Try calculating that with WAR.

 

[Dick Whitman]

The Royals remind me of another compilation of under-achievers to reach the World Series: 1988 Los Angeles Dodgers.

C Mike Scioscia - 81 OPS+ but his contribution was clearly behind the plate, framing pitches and handling the pitching staff, has gone on to be a top-tier manager.
1b Franklin Stubbs - 92 OPS+ and -0.6 dWAR
2b Steve Sax - 94 OPS+, swiped 42 bases, was the team's spark plug
3b Jeff Hamilton - 79 OPS+, dreadful defensive third baseman
SS Alfredo Griffin - 50 OPS+, on the bright side he was not clearly the worst defensive SS in the game
Lf Kirk Gibson - 148 OPS+ NL MVP, hobbled heart of the franchise
Cf John Shelby - didn't hit for average or power, didn't steal many bases, was never confused for a gold glove center fielder
Rf Mike Marshall - 118 OPS+, had extra-base power in his bat

Bench: Some players made valuable contributions like then 38-year-old catcher Rick Dempsey, who provided power off the bench. Mickey Hatcher filled in all over the diamond and almost hit .300. Pedro Guerrero was by far the team's best hitter, right until 16 August when he was traded for southpaw John Tudor.

And the starting pitching staff had some names (Tudor, Sutton, Valenzuela) but only one true ace NL Cy Young Orel Hershiser. But look at the bullpen and you start to see some similarities.

Alejandro Pena: 94.1 IP, 1.91 ERA, 12 SV
Brian Holton: 84.2 IP, 1.70 ERA
Jesse Orrosco, 53 IP, 2.72 ERA, 9 SV
Jay Howell: 65 IP, 2.08 ERA, 21 SV

As an aside, then super prospect, 20-year-old, Ramon Martinez, was left off the WS roster. Ramon split time between the majors and minors. As an Albuquerque Duke, Ramon posted a 2.76 ERA, went 5-2 and K'd 49 in 58 IP, fairly impressive for a guy pitching in Triple-A and over six years younger than his average competitor. Meanwhile, his little brother, 18-year-old Pedro, pitched his first professional ball for the Great Falls Dodgers of the Pioneer League going 8-3 and fanning 82 in 77 innings.

If the Royals win the World Series, and I hope they do, they'll be the worst collection of players to do since the '88 Dodgers. But ... what makes a team? Try calculating that with WAR.

The Royals are good because they have bad players? I'm confused.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Sam Mellinger had a good take on how the Royals, by being so far outside the mainstream for so long, got themselves ahead of the curve as priorities changed from home runs to speed, defense and contact hitting. He says even the Royals' front-office people wondered about Moore's obsession with outfield defense, but that a lot of AL teams are looking to KC for clues now.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article3113391.html

 

[FileNotFound]

The Cardinals had no reason to lose that game. Orta was down 0-2 before the bad call. Orta was erased at third on Sundberg's gawdawful bunt. The Cardinals lost that series because they shat the bed in that inning and in Game 7, and because they batted .191 or whatever it was for the Series. Cardinals fans are still whining about Denkinger. Cardinals fans who weren't even born in 1985 whine about Denkinger. So many other reasons why they lost that game .

 

[poindexter]

The Royals remind me of another compilation of under-achievers to reach the World Series: 1988 Los Angeles Dodgers.

C Mike Scioscia - 81 OPS+ but his contribution was clearly behind the plate, framing pitches and handling the pitching staff, has gone on to be a top-tier manager.
1b Franklin Stubbs - 92 OPS+ and -0.6 dWAR
2b Steve Sax - 94 OPS+, swiped 42 bases, was the team's spark plug
3b Jeff Hamilton - 79 OPS+, dreadful defensive third baseman
SS Alfredo Griffin - 50 OPS+, on the bright side he was not clearly the worst defensive SS in the game
Lf Kirk Gibson - 148 OPS+ NL MVP, hobbled heart of the franchise
Cf John Shelby - didn't hit for average or power, didn't steal many bases, was never confused for a gold glove center fielder
Rf Mike Marshall - 118 OPS+, had extra-base power in his bat

Bench: Some players made valuable contributions like then 38-year-old catcher Rick Dempsey, who provided power off the bench. Mickey Hatcher filled in all over the diamond and almost hit .300. Pedro Guerrero was by far the team's best hitter, right until 16 August when he was traded for southpaw John Tudor.

And the starting pitching staff had some names (Tudor, Sutton, Valenzuela) but only one true ace NL Cy Young Orel Hershiser. But look at the bullpen and you start to see some similarities.

Alejandro Pena: 94.1 IP, 1.91 ERA, 12 SV
Brian Holton: 84.2 IP, 1.70 ERA
Jesse Orrosco, 53 IP, 2.72 ERA, 9 SV
Jay Howell: 65 IP, 2.08 ERA, 21 SV

As an aside, then super prospect, 20-year-old, Ramon Martinez, was left off the WS roster. Ramon split time between the majors and minors. As an Albuquerque Duke, Ramon posted a 2.76 ERA, went 5-2 and K'd 49 in 58 IP, fairly impressive for a guy pitching in Triple-A and over six years younger than his average competitor. Meanwhile, his little brother, 18-year-old Pedro, pitched his first professional ball for the Great Falls Dodgers of the Pioneer League going 8-3 and fanning 82 in 77 innings.

If the Royals win the World Series, and I hope they do, they'll be the worst collection of players to do since the '88 Dodgers. But ... what makes a team? Try calculating that with WAR.

The 1988 Dodgers had a pitcher having one of the best seasons in major league history leading them. The Royals have nothing of the sort.
The 1988 Dodgers were old. Or, charitably, 'experienced'. They had two former WS MVPs on the roster. They Royals have nothing like that.

The Royals are young, fast and play super OF defense. The Dodgers did none of that.

They both have good bullpens.

 

[Chef2]

The Cardinals had no reason to lose that game. Orta was down 0-2 before the bad call. Orta was erased at third on Sundberg's gawdawful bunt. The Cardinals lost that series because they shat the bed in that inning and in Game 7, and because they batted .191 or whatever it was for the Series. Cardinals fans are still whining about Denkinger. Cardinals fans who weren't even born in 1985 whine about Denkinger. So many other reasons why they lost that game .

The Clark missed pop foul also comes to mind.

KC in 4, though I half-heartedly hope it goes 6 so KC can close it at home.

 

[exmediahack]

As I've said for 29 years on Denkinger...

St. Louis fans need to also blame Jack Clark for whiffing a pop fly and Darrell Porter (the true irony here given his years in KC) letting a passed ball advance two runners from 1st/2nd to 2nd/3rd.

The Cardinals were up 3-1 in that series.

Bring on the Royals! Bring on Game 2!

 

[poindexter]

Jesus, guys. Its a 2014 World Series with the Royals and Giants. Can you give the call a rest?

 

[Steak Snabler]

Sam Mellinger had a good take on how the Royals, by being so far outside the mainstream for so long, got themselves ahead of the curve as priorities changed from home runs to speed, defense and contact hitting. He says even the Royals' front-office people wondered about Moore's obsession with outfield defense, but that a lot of AL teams are looking to KC for clues now.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/sam-mellinger/article3113391.html

Run prevention didn't just become a thing. I remember it became a big deal with the Mariners when they had that winning season in 2010(?) And of course the Red Sox made a big leap in 2013 largely by improving their defense.

I tend to think the Royals are just a pretty good team on a phenomenal hot streak. If there was more to it than that, they would have won more than 89 games.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Why do people think that having a good defense is somehow this big rebuke to sabermetrics?

One of the most provocative, flying-in-the-face-of-conventional-thinking chapters in "Moneyball" was the one about how dependent pitchers are - almost completely dependent - on their defense when the ball is put into play. There is an entire field of sabermetrics devoted to this concept, Defensive Independent Pitching Statistics ("DIPS").