Wall Street thread

[jgmacg]

I'd never suggest regulation as a corrective to every economic need. But some regulatory oversight, some effective means of keeping things in bounds on that level playing field, if only to curb the worst in our natures, seems like a good thing. Theoretically, anyway. Even Adam Smith understood that there had to be rules in the marketplace.

But as you say, in whom do we place faith to enforce them?

 

[Football_Bat]

Big --

Did you see '60 Minutes' last night? Interesting piece on the current Wall Street implosion. Including the unsecured, unregulated market in "credit default swaps." Which apparently totals something around $60 trillion dollars.

Good thing I keep my savings bonds, buttons and bits of string in a shoebox.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/05/60minutes/main4502454.shtml

"Well, we really don't know. There's this voluntary survey that claims that the market is in the range of 50 to 60 or so trillion dollars. It's sort of alarming that, in a market that big, we don't even know how big it is to within, say, $10 trillion."

"Sixty trillion dollars. I know it seems incredible. It's four times the size of the U.S. debt. But that's the size of the market according to these voluntary reports," says Partnoy.

He says this market is almost entirely unregulated.

Sixty ****ing TRILLION?

U.S. GDP in 2007 totaled $13.84 trillion.

 

[Clerk Typist]

Do we have an accepted definition for Depression, since that word seems to be thrown around a lot lately?

Don't know how bad things will get, but consider this:

Unemployment, inflation and interest rates are a fraction of what they were in 1982 . . . and I don't remember the "D" word rearing its head back then.

People actually bought homes with 18 percent mortgages.

That's because back then we didn't live in the 24-hour newscycle, with talking heads giving us the best- and worst-case scenario on multiple platforms.

Let me make it abundantly clear I'm not falling into lockstep with the lemmings who prattle on about how negative the media is and how it's the media's fault everything is going to hell in a handbasket. But 25 years ago, our only way to read or hear more about the recession was to pick up one of the financial papers (unless you had CNN, still in its infancy, or watched PBS and Louis Rukeyser...every Friday night at my house was fish sticks and Rukeyser).

Nowadays, we see stories about the recession everywhere we go and everyone has an opinion on it.

Bring back the elves!

 

[cranberry]

I'd never suggest regulation as a corrective to every economic need. But some regulatory oversight, some effective means of keeping things in bounds on that level playing field, if only to curb the worst in our natures, seems like a good thing. Theoretically, anyway. Even Adam Smith understood that there had to be rules in the marketplace.

But as you say, in whom do we place faith to enforce them?

There's absolutely no reason not to regulate predatory lending practices and while shareholders theoretically should be minding the corporate store, warning bells should sound when debt-equity ratios go so far out of whack.

Bottom line: This is what it looks like the morning you wake up from a 25-year credit orgy. What's happened in the financial sector in recent years is closer to organized crime than free market enterprise in my book. Caveat emptor.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Our financial crisis has resulted in some runs on banks ... in Iceland ...

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article4898553.ece

 

[DanOregon]

Do we have an accepted definition for Depression, since that word seems to be thrown around a lot lately?

Don't know how bad things will get, but consider this:

Unemployment, inflation and interest rates are a fraction of what they were in 1982 . . . and I don't remember the "D" word rearing its head back then.

People actually bought homes with 18 percent mortgages.

To be fair, the unemployment stats have been rejiggered so much in the last 25 years (mainly to keep the stat low), it isn't a valid comparison. How else could we have more than six straight months of NET job losses, yet unemployment stays relatively flat?

And I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds it somewhat amusing to see Congress ripping Wall Street a new one for being careless and irresponsible with other people's money, especially when you take Iraq into consideration. (Let alone other people's lives.)

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

Do we have an accepted definition for Depression, since that word seems to be thrown around a lot lately?

Not comparable.
http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/55175.html

 

[slappy4428]

Do we have an accepted definition for Depression, since that word seems to be thrown around a lot lately?

Don't know how bad things will get, but consider this:

Unemployment, inflation and interest rates are a fraction of what they were in 1982 . . . and I don't remember the "D" word rearing its head back then.

People actually bought homes with 18 percent mortgages.

To be fair, the unemployment stats have been rejiggered so much in the last 25 years (mainly to keep the stat low), it isn't a valid comparison. How else could we have more than six straight months of NET job losses, yet unemployment stays relatively flat?

And I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds it somewhat amusing to see Congress ripping Wall Street a new one for being careless and irresponsible with other people's money, especially when you take Iraq into consideration. (Let alone other people's lives.)

Because once the unemployment runs out, the person is off the books.

 

[DanOregon]

Our economy has been based on a "float" for the past 10 years. As long as the money kept coming in to cover the checks we were writing everything was great. Not so much now.
And that AIG junket to the West Coast smells really bad. That's the kind of thing that whether it's a fair criticism or not, people will seize on. And they really will not have a hard time taxing millionaires up the wazoo whether it hurts the economy or not.

 

[DanOregon]

And now the ASIAN MARKET IS TANKING ABOUT 10 percent.

 

[deskslave]

And now the ASIAN MARKET IS TANKING ABOUT 10 percent.

Nikkei down 9 percent. That would be about 850 points on the Dow -- if it happened today. If it had happened last week, it would be about 1,000 points.

 

[deskslave]

And the U.K. announces its own bailout, er, rescue plan. $88 billion.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7658277.stm

 

[Football_Bat]

Our financial crisis has resulted in some runs on banks ... in Iceland ...

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article4898553.ece

Bjork will have to change her name to Bjroke.

 

[BYH]

Our financial crisis has resulted in some runs on banks ... in Iceland ...

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article4898553.ece

Bjork will have to change her name to Bjroke.

BOOOOOO!!!!

(damn solid, actually :D)

 

[Football_Bat]

The Bilderburgers have spoken!

Fed in the dark of night cuts interest rates a half-point to 1.5% in a "coordinated worldwide effort."

It got only as low as 1% after 9/11.

 

[Football_Bat]

And yet, the Dow opens 200 more down. My guess, though, is the cat will hit the bottom and bounce.

 

[2muchcoffeeman]

And yet, the Dow opens 200 more down. My guess, though, is the cat will hit the bottom and bounce.

And then it went back up. And then it went back down. :-\

CNBC interviewed a guy this morning who said he thinks the Dow's going to break through 9,000 before stopping its skid. That may be a good thing.

 

[TrooperBari]

And now the ASIAN MARKET IS TANKING ABOUT 10 percent.

Nikkei down 9 percent. That would be about 850 points on the Dow -- if it happened today. If it had happened last week, it would be about 1,000 points.

Markets here are closed indefinitely. Makes for great copy ... and ****ty pensions.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

And yet, the Dow opens 200 more down. My guess, though, is the cat will hit the bottom and bounce.

And then it went back up. And then it went back down. :-\

CNBC interviewed a guy this morning who said he thinks the Dow's going to break through 9,000 before stopping its skid. That may be a good thing.

Would indeed be better if they reached a short-term bottom, fast.
Then you get the dead-cat bounce, based on the absence of further bad news, if nothing else.

Then . . . the market will test the bottom, again. And THAT
will tell the tale.

 

[Football_Bat]

Dow opened up 100 and now it's down 100.

Expect lots of volatility in the weeks ahead. It was like this in 1929, too.