Vick case thread....please behave

[Big Chee]

I agree 100%. That's the problem. Writers like Brunell love to admonish the end result rather than the reasons that lead to it

Very well said, Chee. There's often, IMO, a fine line between advocating for personal responsibility and blaming the victim in a number of these instances. It's a real question, I think. Which means it's not necessarily the type of thing which will respond well to dismissive, 'you-suck,' condescending monologues.

On the other hand, you can't be dissing people like a Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who was legitimately trying to help with his study in the 1970's.

Unfortunately, in todays current climate of "journalism" anecdotal sightings of bad behavior trump the studies conducted by Daniel Moynihan and the William Julius of the world who over two decades ago said the very same problems the african american community are facing today would play itself out

 

[Norrin Radd]

I'm just glad to know another left-handed, mobile quarterback, Mark Brunell, has apparently weighed in with an article of his own.

That's to be expected, considering his strong moral beliefs.

 

[boots]

Michael Vick is his own man. His parents didn't have a damn thing to do with him putting himself in the position that he's in. He made his own decision.
Now, he's hoping to get himself out of this position and if that means turning on people, he may do that.

 

[93Devil]

Michael Vick is his own man. His parents didn't have a damn thing to do with him putting himself in the position that he's in. He made his own decision.
Now, he's hoping to get himself out of this position and if that means turning on people, he may do that.

The parents that gave us Mike and Marcus?

Yes, they did have something to do with the situation he is in now. They raised him.

I'm guessing reading chapter books and weekend trips to zoos and museums were not part of the weekly itinerary in the Vick household.

They raised these two, now the government will deal with the sons.

What's the over/under on Marcus popping up on a video or a witness statement? August 3rd? Thursday?

 

[boots]

Michael Vick is his own man. His parents didn't have a damn thing to do with him putting himself in the position that he's in. He made his own decision.
Now, he's hoping to get himself out of this position and if that means turning on people, he may do that.

The parents that gave us Mike and Marcus?

Yes, they did have something to do with the situation he is in now. They raised him.

I'm guessing reading chapter books and weekend trips to zoos and museums were not part of the weekly itinerary in the Vick household.

They raised these two, now the government will deal with the sons.

What's the over/under on Marcus popping up on a video or a witness statement? August 3rd? Thursday?

Bull****. He's a grown ass man. He knows right from wrong. I suppose you did everything your parents told you, right?
Get the **** out of here what that nonsense.
This man is 27 years-old. He's young, dumb and rich.
Blame his parents? For what? He knew what he was doing.

 

[93Devil]

Michael Vick is his own man. His parents didn't have a damn thing to do with him putting himself in the position that he's in. He made his own decision.
Now, he's hoping to get himself out of this position and if that means turning on people, he may do that.

The parents that gave us Mike and Marcus?

Yes, they did have something to do with the situation he is in now. They raised him.

I'm guessing reading chapter books and weekend trips to zoos and museums were not part of the weekly itinerary in the Vick household.

They raised these two, now the government will deal with the sons.

What's the over/under on Marcus popping up on a video or a witness statement? August 3rd? Thursday?

Bull****. He's a grown ass man. He knows right from wrong. I suppose you did everything your parents told you, right?
Get the **** out of here what that nonsense.
This man is 27 years-old. He's young, dumb and rich.
Blame his parents? For what? He knew what he was doing.

I'm going to say he knew, but I really do not think he was given the best basis for right and wrong as many other children have.

There are a few things that if you do them once, you probably will do it for your entire life. Hit a woman in anger, cheat on a woman, steal are a couple. I cannot ever see myself doing any of these, and there have been times in my life when it crossed my mind, but I chose not to do the act. Torturing dogs can be added to the list. It is just the way I was/most people were raised.

 

[heyabbott]

According to SI's Peter King, the Falcons will in some way discipline Mike Vick by tomorrow:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/07/22/vick/index.html

King believes the Falcons will opt for the permitted 4-game unpaid suspension for conduct detrimental to the team. Another option is for the Falcons to outright cut Vick, but the salary cap hit would be immense, as would the PR hit, particularly if Vick is ultimately found not guilty of some/all of the charges against him.

Which reminds me - William Rhoden defense of Vick must even make Peter King blush.

That is probably true, Boom

I must say, however, that some of the "anti-Rhodens" - those very stridently advocating for Vick's absolutely, positively, under-no-circumstances not being allowed to attend training camp even for a day - are even more offensive to me. I'm thinking about starting a thread about one such example on the journalism board if time permits. What Mike Vick did, if he did it, is illegal, offensive and repugnant. But those who are just obsessed with taking Vick down before he even has any legal redress also are anathemic to me. There is a blood lust in the air, IMO, and it is sickening. And you know how I often feel about Rhoden and what I feel are irresponsible usages of the race card. But in this case, the railroad-job is, I feel, very much in effect. And it's wrong, IMO. PETA should not be allowed to dictate the NFL's and the Falcons' agenda.

I guess we'll see how it plays out.

I think we're holding the NFL and the falcons to the same standard that our employer would us to, if we were federally indicted.

BTW, I think the best thing that the Falcons could do is hold Vick accountable to the contract he signed and demand his presence at every single workout, meeting practice and scrimmage, unless there is a job related excuse. And fine him or suspend him for violations of his contractual obligation to perpare for his job.

 

[jgmacg]

Michael Vick is his own man. His parents didn't have a damn thing to do with him putting himself in the position that he's in. He made his own decision.
Now, he's hoping to get himself out of this position and if that means turning on people, he may do that.

The parents that gave us Mike and Marcus?

Yes, they did have something to do with the situation he is in now. They raised him.

I'm guessing reading chapter books and weekend trips to zoos and museums were not part of the weekly itinerary in the Vick household.

They raised these two, now the government will deal with the sons.

What's the over/under on Marcus popping up on a video or a witness statement? August 3rd? Thursday?

Bull****. He's a grown ass man. He knows right from wrong. I suppose you did everything your parents told you, right?
Get the **** out of here what that nonsense.
This man is 27 years-old. He's young, dumb and rich.
Blame his parents? For what? He knew what he was doing.

So a person's upbringing has nothing to do with the adult they become?

 

[Starman]

Yeah, I mean that is a good point TD & something we all have to think about.

Many pros come from hard backgrounds (American or foreign ghettos/poverty) with a variety of cultures. Just because they get money and are on TV doesn't mean they have totally abandoned their roots (for better or worse).

I am not making a judgement here but rather saying I think we need to put everything in context. Do we expect pros to be role models, is that part of the "job description?" Maybe it is.

Role models? No.

Barely-civilized human beings? Yes.

I'm sick and tired of the bull**** "it's a cultural thing."

The Aztec culture practiced human sacrifice. Some cultures deserve to be wiped out.

 

[Tommy_Dreamer]

Michael Vick is his own man. His parents didn't have a damn thing to do with him putting himself in the position that he's in. He made his own decision.
Now, he's hoping to get himself out of this position and if that means turning on people, he may do that.

The parents that gave us Mike and Marcus?

Yes, they did have something to do with the situation he is in now. They raised him.

I'm guessing reading chapter books and weekend trips to zoos and museums were not part of the weekly itinerary in the Vick household.

They raised these two, now the government will deal with the sons.

What's the over/under on Marcus popping up on a video or a witness statement? August 3rd? Thursday?

Bull****. He's a grown ass man. He knows right from wrong. I suppose you did everything your parents told you, right?
Get the **** out of here what that nonsense.
This man is 27 years-old. He's young, dumb and rich.
Blame his parents? For what? He knew what he was doing.

So a person's upbringing has nothing to do with the adult they become?

You beat me to it.

 

[boots]

Michael Vick is his own man. His parents didn't have a damn thing to do with him putting himself in the position that he's in. He made his own decision.
Now, he's hoping to get himself out of this position and if that means turning on people, he may do that.

The parents that gave us Mike and Marcus?

Yes, they did have something to do with the situation he is in now. They raised him.

I'm guessing reading chapter books and weekend trips to zoos and museums were not part of the weekly itinerary in the Vick household.

They raised these two, now the government will deal with the sons.

What's the over/under on Marcus popping up on a video or a witness statement? August 3rd? Thursday?

Bull****. He's a grown ass man. He knows right from wrong. I suppose you did everything your parents told you, right?
Get the **** out of here what that nonsense.
This man is 27 years-old. He's young, dumb and rich.
Blame his parents? For what? He knew what he was doing.

So a person's upbringing has nothing to do with the adult they become?

Michael Vick is his own man. His parents didn't have a damn thing to do with him putting himself in the position that he's in. He made his own decision.
Now, he's hoping to get himself out of this position and if that means turning on people, he may do that.

The parents that gave us Mike and Marcus?

Yes, they did have something to do with the situation he is in now. They raised him.

I'm guessing reading chapter books and weekend trips to zoos and museums were not part of the weekly itinerary in the Vick household.

They raised these two, now the government will deal with the sons.

What's the over/under on Marcus popping up on a video or a witness statement? August 3rd? Thursday?

Bull****. He's a grown ass man. He knows right from wrong. I suppose you did everything your parents told you, right?
Get the **** out of here what that nonsense.
This man is 27 years-old. He's young, dumb and rich.
Blame his parents? For what? He knew what he was doing.

I'm going to say he knew, but I really do not think he was given the best basis for right and wrong as many other children have.

There are a few things that if you do them once, you probably will do it for your entire life. Hit a woman in anger, cheat on a woman, steal are a couple. I cannot ever see myself doing any of these, and there have been times in my life when it crossed my mind, but I chose not to do the act. Torturing dogs can be added to the list. It is just the way I was/most people were raised.

Do you know the type of parents he has? No. But you're blaming them for their son's transgressions? Well hell, lets blame all parent's for their offspring's transgressions!
The Vicks aren't a dumb clan. True the projects of Newport News is their home but doesn't mean that their parents didn't instill values. People might be born into proverty and live in it but that doesn't mean they are heathens.

 

[Mmac]

Michael Vick is his own man. His parents didn't have a damn thing to do with him putting himself in the position that he's in. He made his own decision.
Now, he's hoping to get himself out of this position and if that means turning on people, he may do that.

The parents that gave us Mike and Marcus?

Yes, they did have something to do with the situation he is in now. They raised him.

I'm guessing reading chapter books and weekend trips to zoos and museums were not part of the weekly itinerary in the Vick household.

They raised these two, now the government will deal with the sons.

What's the over/under on Marcus popping up on a video or a witness statement? August 3rd? Thursday?

Bull****. He's a grown ass man. He knows right from wrong. I suppose you did everything your parents told you, right?
Get the **** out of here what that nonsense.
This man is 27 years-old. He's young, dumb and rich.
Blame his parents? For what? He knew what he was doing.

So a person's upbringing has nothing to do with the adult they become?

No, jgmac, it certainly does. But once you're a full grown self-sufficient adult, its no longer a valid excuse.

 

[jgmacg]

Michael Vick is his own man. His parents didn't have a damn thing to do with him putting himself in the position that he's in. He made his own decision.
Now, he's hoping to get himself out of this position and if that means turning on people, he may do that.

The parents that gave us Mike and Marcus?

Yes, they did have something to do with the situation he is in now. They raised him.

I'm guessing reading chapter books and weekend trips to zoos and museums were not part of the weekly itinerary in the Vick household.

They raised these two, now the government will deal with the sons.

What's the over/under on Marcus popping up on a video or a witness statement? August 3rd? Thursday?

Bull****. He's a grown ass man. He knows right from wrong. I suppose you did everything your parents told you, right?
Get the **** out of here what that nonsense.
This man is 27 years-old. He's young, dumb and rich.
Blame his parents? For what? He knew what he was doing.

So a person's upbringing has nothing to do with the adult they become?

No, jgmac, it certainly does. But once you're a full grown self-sufficient adult, its no longer a valid excuse.

Excuse? Of course not. But Stoob's absolutism - along with the presumption that everyone knows right from wrong regardless of what they're taught, or by whom, or how - on the point was worth noting.

 

[boots]

Michael Vick is his own man. His parents didn't have a damn thing to do with him putting himself in the position that he's in. He made his own decision.
Now, he's hoping to get himself out of this position and if that means turning on people, he may do that.

The parents that gave us Mike and Marcus?

Yes, they did have something to do with the situation he is in now. They raised him.

I'm guessing reading chapter books and weekend trips to zoos and museums were not part of the weekly itinerary in the Vick household.

They raised these two, now the government will deal with the sons.

What's the over/under on Marcus popping up on a video or a witness statement? August 3rd? Thursday?

Bull****. He's a grown ass man. He knows right from wrong. I suppose you did everything your parents told you, right?
Get the **** out of here what that nonsense.
This man is 27 years-old. He's young, dumb and rich.
Blame his parents? For what? He knew what he was doing.

So a person's upbringing has nothing to do with the adult they become?

No, jgmac, it certainly does. But once you're a full grown self-sufficient adult, its no longer a valid excuse.

Excuse? Of course not. But Stoob's absolutism - along with the presumption that everyone knows right from wrong regardless of what they're taught, or by whom, or how - on the point was worth noting.

You had the perfect parents and you were the perfect child?
You have done no wrong in your life right?
Get the **** out of here with that bull**** you simple motherXXXXXX
Because I don't blame the parents for what a 27 year-old man does you try to mock me?
How ****ing dare you.

 

[Tommy_Dreamer]

Michael Vick is his own man. His parents didn't have a damn thing to do with him putting himself in the position that he's in. He made his own decision.
Now, he's hoping to get himself out of this position and if that means turning on people, he may do that.

The parents that gave us Mike and Marcus?

Yes, they did have something to do with the situation he is in now. They raised him.

I'm guessing reading chapter books and weekend trips to zoos and museums were not part of the weekly itinerary in the Vick household.

They raised these two, now the government will deal with the sons.

What's the over/under on Marcus popping up on a video or a witness statement? August 3rd? Thursday?

Bull****. He's a grown ass man. He knows right from wrong. I suppose you did everything your parents told you, right?
Get the **** out of here what that nonsense.
This man is 27 years-old. He's young, dumb and rich.
Blame his parents? For what? He knew what he was doing.

So a person's upbringing has nothing to do with the adult they become?

No, jgmac, it certainly does. But once you're a full grown self-sufficient adult, its no longer a valid excuse.

Excuse? Of course not. But Stoob's absolutism - along with the presumption that everyone knows right from wrong regardless of what they're taught, or by whom, or how - on the point was worth noting.

You had the perfect parents and you were the perfect child?
You have done no wrong in your life right?
Get the **** out of here with that bull**** you simple motherXXXXXX
Because I don't blame the parents for what a 27 year-old man does you try to mock me?
How ****ing dare you.

So much for keeping it simple. Jeebus stoob grow the **** up! When someone disagrees with you, POLITELY disagree back. This time you called someone "A Name." I'm not completely innocent of not being an adult (mostly when it comes to football), but this is a serious issue and you're just bringing it down with all this childish bull****.

As for the point:
When you're 27 you SHOULD KNOW BETTER.
However, your upbringing does have a lot to do with how you will behave in the future. Maybe he got away with too much growing up because he was a star athlete, it's happened before. And his parents knew what he was doing but couldn't blow the whistle on what was to become a monetary windfall.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Good piece by the AJC today ... http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/21/0722vickbio.html

But repeatedly during the past six years, Vick's celebrity, his money and his value to his team helped insulate him from public censure for his actions.

Vick settled a lawsuit last year by a former girlfriend who said he knowingly gave her a sexually transmitted disease. But the case was closed in such secrecy that the woman's lawyer can't even say why he can't comment on it.

Vick surrounded himself with unsavory associates, two with criminal records for drug trafficking. After two friends with Vick pocketed someone else's fancy watch at the Atlanta airport, the owner said a Falcons executive offered him money to keep Vick's name out of a police report.

Even the contents of Vick's water bottle raised questions. Vick gave contradictory explanations about a bottle with a secret compartment that police confiscated in January in the Miami airport. Police said it contained suspected marijuana; five days later, authorities said no drugs were found. Vick later claimed he kept jewelry in the compartment, and that police tried to frame him.

How the Falcons, Vick and his fans responded to those episodes illustrates the incredible leeway afforded talented sports stars, according to sports psychologists and others who study the actions of elite athletes.

 

[boots]

Michael Vick is his own man. His parents didn't have a damn thing to do with him putting himself in the position that he's in. He made his own decision.
Now, he's hoping to get himself out of this position and if that means turning on people, he may do that.

The parents that gave us Mike and Marcus?

Yes, they did have something to do with the situation he is in now. They raised him.

I'm guessing reading chapter books and weekend trips to zoos and museums were not part of the weekly itinerary in the Vick household.

They raised these two, now the government will deal with the sons.

What's the over/under on Marcus popping up on a video or a witness statement? August 3rd? Thursday?

Bull****. He's a grown ass man. He knows right from wrong. I suppose you did everything your parents told you, right?
Get the **** out of here what that nonsense.
This man is 27 years-old. He's young, dumb and rich.
Blame his parents? For what? He knew what he was doing.

So a person's upbringing has nothing to do with the adult they become?

No, jgmac, it certainly does. But once you're a full grown self-sufficient adult, its no longer a valid excuse.

Excuse? Of course not. But Stoob's absolutism - along with the presumption that everyone knows right from wrong regardless of what they're taught, or by whom, or how - on the point was worth noting.

You had the perfect parents and you were the perfect child?
You have done no wrong in your life right?
Get the **** out of here with that bull**** you simple motherXXXXXX
Because I don't blame the parents for what a 27 year-old man does you try to mock me?
How ****ing dare you.

So much for keeping it simple. Jeebus stoob grow the **** up! When someone disagrees with you, POLITELY disagree back. This time you called someone "A Name." I'm not completely innocent of not being an adult (mostly when it comes to football), but this is a serious issue and you're just bringing it down with all this childish bull****.

As for the point:
When you're 27 you SHOULD KNOW BETTER.
However, your upbringing does have a lot to do with how you will behave in the future. Maybe he got away with too much growing up because he was a star athlete, it's happened before. And his parents knew what he was doing but couldn't blow the whistle on what was to become a monetary windfall.

I guess If I called you Tommy Wet Dreamer that would be a polite response to your calling me stoobs?
Get the **** out of here with the bull**** man.
Sell it somewhere else. It's sold out here.
As for the debate about his parents, I felt it was going nicely. DON'T **** IT UP!

 

[jgmacg]

You had the perfect parents and you were the perfect child?
You have done no wrong in your life right?
Get the **** out of here with that bull**** you simple motherXXXXXX
Because I don't blame the parents for what a 27 year-old man does you try to mock me?
How ****ing dare you.

A) Ask the orderly to back your Depakote with about 20 mm of Lithium sub-q. It'll help take the edges off your day.

B) Notice that I said, quite clearly, that how he was raised was no excuse.

C) What you're saying, though, is that children have a sense of right and wrong regardless of how they're raised. If that's true, then why bother with Sunday School?

D) Before they lock this thread, as they do all your others, let me ask this, vis a vis right, wrong and Michael Vick's parents:

What if Michael Vick's father fancied dog-fighting?

 

[Tommy_Dreamer]

Michael Vick is his own man. His parents didn't have a damn thing to do with him putting himself in the position that he's in. He made his own decision.
Now, he's hoping to get himself out of this position and if that means turning on people, he may do that.

The parents that gave us Mike and Marcus?

Yes, they did have something to do with the situation he is in now. They raised him.

I'm guessing reading chapter books and weekend trips to zoos and museums were not part of the weekly itinerary in the Vick household.

They raised these two, now the government will deal with the sons.

What's the over/under on Marcus popping up on a video or a witness statement? August 3rd? Thursday?

Bull****. He's a grown ass man. He knows right from wrong. I suppose you did everything your parents told you, right?
Get the **** out of here what that nonsense.
This man is 27 years-old. He's young, dumb and rich.
Blame his parents? For what? He knew what he was doing.

So a person's upbringing has nothing to do with the adult they become?

No, jgmac, it certainly does. But once you're a full grown self-sufficient adult, its no longer a valid excuse.

Excuse? Of course not. But Stoob's absolutism - along with the presumption that everyone knows right from wrong regardless of what they're taught, or by whom, or how - on the point was worth noting.

You had the perfect parents and you were the perfect child?
You have done no wrong in your life right?
Get the **** out of here with that bull**** you simple motherXXXXXX
Because I don't blame the parents for what a 27 year-old man does you try to mock me?
How ****ing dare you.

So much for keeping it simple. Jeebus stoob grow the **** up! When someone disagrees with you, POLITELY disagree back. This time you called someone "A Name." I'm not completely innocent of not being an adult (mostly when it comes to football), but this is a serious issue and you're just bringing it down with all this childish bull****.

As for the point:
When you're 27 you SHOULD KNOW BETTER.
However, your upbringing does have a lot to do with how you will behave in the future. Maybe he got away with too much growing up because he was a star athlete, it's happened before. And his parents knew what he was doing but couldn't blow the whistle on what was to become a monetary windfall.

I guess If I called you Tommy Wet Dreamer that would be a polite response to your calling me stoobs?
Get the **** out of here with the bull**** man.
Sell it somewhere else. It's sold out here.
As for the debate about his parents, I felt it was going nicely. DON'T **** IT UP!

Holy jumpin baby jeebus, you are a ****. I ****ed it up? .... God, you really are pathetic.

Waiting for this one to be another stoob casualty in 3...2...1

 

[boots]

Michael Vick is his own man. His parents didn't have a damn thing to do with him putting himself in the position that he's in. He made his own decision.
Now, he's hoping to get himself out of this position and if that means turning on people, he may do that.

The parents that gave us Mike and Marcus?

Yes, they did have something to do with the situation he is in now. They raised him.

I'm guessing reading chapter books and weekend trips to zoos and museums were not part of the weekly itinerary in the Vick household.

They raised these two, now the government will deal with the sons.

What's the over/under on Marcus popping up on a video or a witness statement? August 3rd? Thursday?

Bull****. He's a grown ass man. He knows right from wrong. I suppose you did everything your parents told you, right?
Get the **** out of here what that nonsense.
This man is 27 years-old. He's young, dumb and rich.
Blame his parents? For what? He knew what he was doing.

So a person's upbringing has nothing to do with the adult they become?

No, jgmac, it certainly does. But once you're a full grown self-sufficient adult, its no longer a valid excuse.

Excuse? Of course not. But Stoob's absolutism - along with the presumption that everyone knows right from wrong regardless of what they're taught, or by whom, or how - on the point was worth noting.

You had the perfect parents and you were the perfect child?
You have done no wrong in your life right?
Get the **** out of here with that bull**** you simple motherXXXXXX
Because I don't blame the parents for what a 27 year-old man does you try to mock me?
How ****ing dare you.

So much for keeping it simple. Jeebus stoob grow the **** up! When someone disagrees with you, POLITELY disagree back. This time you called someone "A Name." I'm not completely innocent of not being an adult (mostly when it comes to football), but this is a serious issue and you're just bringing it down with all this childish bull****.

As for the point:
When you're 27 you SHOULD KNOW BETTER.
However, your upbringing does have a lot to do with how you will behave in the future. Maybe he got away with too much growing up because he was a star athlete, it's happened before. And his parents knew what he was doing but couldn't blow the whistle on what was to become a monetary windfall.

I guess If I called you Tommy Wet Dreamer that would be a polite response to your calling me stoobs?
Get the **** out of here with the bull**** man.
Sell it somewhere else. It's sold out here.
As for the debate about his parents, I felt it was going nicely. DON'T **** IT UP!

Holy jumpin baby jeebus, you are a ****. I ****ed it up? .... God, you really are pathetic.

Waiting for this one to be another stoob casualty in 3...2...1

Wet dream, please, we don't need this one locked. If you want to be an ass, do it in a PM, OK?