Vick case thread....please behave

[expendable]

I just read the indictment, and Vick seems pretty well doomed there.
If I were indicted, and the feds had a witness that I gave money to after a fight, I think I'd be looking to deal.

Having sat on a federal jury, I learned that the feds don't just throw around indictments for the hell of it. The government has a legal army at its disposal that will use a fine tooth comb to find what it needs order to put its case together and the government's case is almost always ironclad.

You have to have a pretty creative defense lawyer to answer the case AND justify the actions of the defendant or defendants.

I've never sat on a grand jury cougargirl but I know the feds do make mistakes. I bring up Don King who beat more than 50 charges. At the time, he looked like a good bet to spend some time in jail. He beat the rap so anything is possible.

Only in America.

 

[JackyJackBN]

If you guys would stop engaging white chocolate, et al., when they claim racism where none exists, this thread would cease to be about race.

I don't know if you know what racism is. It's not calling someone a name. It's not denying them a seat on a bus. It's a state of mind where one person believes he or she is superior because of their skin pigment. It's showing a lack of compassion and understanding about another culture. It's also showing a fear about that culture that manifests itself.

Well, thank you for the sociology lesson. Now, can we talk about the dog-torturing asshole for a bit?

That is on another thread.

No, that thread was about an asshole-torturing dog.

 

[CentralIllinoisan]

I usually find editoral cartoons very mundane and broad, but this is a great, great one from the New Orleans Times Picayune.

 

[ondeadline]

It must be since it's been posted twice in the same thread. :)

 

[CentralIllinoisan]

Umm ... it's not on this thread. Was there another?

 

[zeke12]

Believe it or not, the first thread got locked.

 

[ondeadline]

You're right. The cartoon was posted on the nuked thread.

 

[Tommy_Dreamer]

Why can't people just keep their friggin mouths shut and leave other people alone!

As for Vick, toss him into an enclosed cage with two or three starving pit bulls and let justice be done. That is if he's proven guilty.

Even if he's not, he should never be allowed to own a pet again.

 

[markvid]

John Kerry apparently thinks the NFL cares about his thoughts on the issue.

http://www.sportinglife.com/nfl/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=international_feed/07/07/21/GRIDIRON_USA-Vick.html

 

[Johnny Dangerously]

It's ridiculous that people can take a serious matter that has nothing to do with race and make it about race.

I am far more interested in how it all came apart for Vick and why it keeps
coming apart for too many black athletes in America. The ultimate symbols of
black athletes in our society used to be men of substance and positive image.
Men with social conscience and resolve such as Jackie Robinson, Curt Flood, Jim
Brown, Bill Russell and John Thompson used to be our heroes. They carried a
burden and deep-rooted responsibility to portray themselves with a sense of
dignity, pride and purpose. Even the cool, counter-culture rebels such as
Muhammad Ali and Tommie Smith and John Carlos stood for something more
meaningful than a multimillion-dollar shoe deal.

But somewhere between Jackie Robinson and Michael Vick, things got all fouled
up. "Street cred" became the anthem of the modern black athlete, this misguided
notion that the only way to appeal to the young demographic of the
sneaker-buying public was to adopt the negative attitudes of the thug life
popularized by black hip-hop/gangster rappers. According to the 18-page federal
indictment, Vick is accused of sponsoring the sort of gruesome dogfighting
enterprise that is readily identified as a part of the dark side of that
culture.

So that's how someone like Michael Vick came into existence. He got hijacked,
and we all let it happen. We let it happen by passively condoning this mess. We
did it when we turned Allen Iverson into a marketing icon and rejected someone
like Grant Hill because he lacked "street cred." We allowed it to happen every
time we gave Vick the benefit of the doubt when he kept stumbling and offering
weak alibis for his stupidity. We allowed it to happen slowly, insidiously over
the past 20 years. The problem is the hijacking of African-American culture by
the hip-hop generation that has helped glorify every rotten, foul and
disgusting racial stereotype it took generations to eradicate.

The full Bryan Burwell column:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/bryanburwell/story/4A107E54CA14CDB18625731E00136DDF?OpenDocument

 

[shockey]

great job by my old friend bryan. outstanding. 8) 8) 8)

 

[outofplace]

It's ridiculous that people can take a serious matter that has nothing to do with race and make it about race.

I am far more interested in how it all came apart for Vick and why it keeps
coming apart for too many black athletes in America. The ultimate symbols of
black athletes in our society used to be men of substance and positive image.
Men with social conscience and resolve such as Jackie Robinson, Curt Flood, Jim
Brown, Bill Russell and John Thompson used to be our heroes. They carried a
burden and deep-rooted responsibility to portray themselves with a sense of
dignity, pride and purpose. Even the cool, counter-culture rebels such as
Muhammad Ali and Tommie Smith and John Carlos stood for something more
meaningful than a multimillion-dollar shoe deal.

But somewhere between Jackie Robinson and Michael Vick, things got all fouled
up. "Street cred" became the anthem of the modern black athlete, this misguided
notion that the only way to appeal to the young demographic of the
sneaker-buying public was to adopt the negative attitudes of the thug life
popularized by black hip-hop/gangster rappers. According to the 18-page federal
indictment, Vick is accused of sponsoring the sort of gruesome dogfighting
enterprise that is readily identified as a part of the dark side of that
culture.

So that's how someone like Michael Vick came into existence. He got hijacked,
and we all let it happen. We let it happen by passively condoning this mess. We
did it when we turned Allen Iverson into a marketing icon and rejected someone
like Grant Hill because he lacked "street cred." We allowed it to happen every
time we gave Vick the benefit of the doubt when he kept stumbling and offering
weak alibis for his stupidity. We allowed it to happen slowly, insidiously over
the past 20 years. The problem is the hijacking of African-American culture by
the hip-hop generation that has helped glorify every rotten, foul and
disgusting racial stereotype it took generations to eradicate.

The full Bryan Burwell column:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/bryanburwell/story/4A107E54CA14CDB18625731E00136DDF?OpenDocument

Was Grant Hill really rejected for a lack of street cred? Or was it more the injuries that stalled his endorsement career?

 

[pressmurphy]

What are the Falcons' options at QB if Vick gets taken out of the equation?
The phrase "situational ethics" comes to mind with respect to what the Falcons do next. It's one thing to ditch Vick (temporarily or permanently) when you've got a Steve Young-in-waiting candidate to take the snaps. It's quite another story if the next two guys on the depth chart are named Joe Pisarcik and Jerry Goldstyne.
I don't think the depth chart should be a factor in the decision-making process, but in the real world it probably does come into play.

 

[boots]

What are the Falcons' options at QB if Vick gets taken out of the equation?
The phrase "situational ethics" comes to mind with respect to what the Falcons do next. It's one thing to ditch Vick (temporarily or permanently) when you've got a Steve Young-in-waiting candidate to take the snaps. It's quite another story if the next two guys on the depth chart are named Joe Pisarcik and Jerry Goldstyne.
I don't think the depth chart should be a factor in the decision-making process, but in the real world it probably does come into play.

The Falcons have some issues. Even if Vick were to play they would still have some issues. Blank has shown a lot of class in this situation, especially with his statement. He knows that if Vick is innocent, he's going to have to play him and pay him. He's playing his cards as an owner properly in my opinion.

 

[slappy4428]

I'm still waiting to find out about what racist statements I made... sling the mud, but can't back it up with facts, eh, bootsie?

Well, thank you for the sociology lesson. Now, can we talk about the dog-torturing asshole for a bit?

That is on another thread.

And since the title of this thread -- surprisingly actually started by outofplace, thereby giving him full title to call the pace of the thread -- is Vick case thread, exactly what other thread should we discuss a dog-torturing asshole?

 

[ServeItUp]

Nicely done, Mr. Burwell. Impactful, yet short and to the point. Excellent work.

 

[slappy4428]

Was Grant Hill really rejected for a lack of street cred? Or was it more the injuries that stalled his endorsement career?

Probably more of the latter. But had he stayed healthy, he still would have been hampered by "lack of street cred"

 

[Oz]

Was Grant Hill really rejected for a lack of street cred? Or was it more the injuries that stalled his endorsement career?

Probably more of the latter. But had he stayed healthy, he still would have been hampered by "lack of street cred"

Not so sure Hill was hampered by a lack of "street cred." His jerseys seemed to sell quite fine when he first joined the Pistons.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

It's ridiculous that people can take a serious matter that has nothing to do with race and make it about race.

I am far more interested in how it all came apart for Vick and why it keeps
coming apart for too many black athletes in America. The ultimate symbols of
black athletes in our society used to be men of substance and positive image.
Men with social conscience and resolve such as Jackie Robinson, Curt Flood, Jim
Brown, Bill Russell and John Thompson used to be our heroes. They carried a
burden and deep-rooted responsibility to portray themselves with a sense of
dignity, pride and purpose. Even the cool, counter-culture rebels such as
Muhammad Ali and Tommie Smith and John Carlos stood for something more
meaningful than a multimillion-dollar shoe deal.

But somewhere between Jackie Robinson and Michael Vick, things got all fouled
up. "Street cred" became the anthem of the modern black athlete, this misguided
notion that the only way to appeal to the young demographic of the
sneaker-buying public was to adopt the negative attitudes of the thug life
popularized by black hip-hop/gangster rappers. According to the 18-page federal
indictment, Vick is accused of sponsoring the sort of gruesome dogfighting
enterprise that is readily identified as a part of the dark side of that
culture.

So that's how someone like Michael Vick came into existence. He got hijacked,
and we all let it happen. We let it happen by passively condoning this mess. We
did it when we turned Allen Iverson into a marketing icon and rejected someone
like Grant Hill because he lacked "street cred." We allowed it to happen every
time we gave Vick the benefit of the doubt when he kept stumbling and offering
weak alibis for his stupidity. We allowed it to happen slowly, insidiously over
the past 20 years. The problem is the hijacking of African-American culture by
the hip-hop generation that has helped glorify every rotten, foul and
disgusting racial stereotype it took generations to eradicate.

The full Bryan Burwell column:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/bryanburwell/story/4A107E54CA14CDB18625731E00136DDF?OpenDocument

So much more sensible than the crap which appeared in Friday's NYT, which consumed so many dead trees, to precious-little purpose,

 

[RokSki]

For anyone who was gleeful for what happened to T.O. a few years back (being forced to sit out by the Eagles) and is also hopeful that Vick will be forced to sit out, think again. That action by the Eagles got the CBA changed. So for everyone who loved that instance and is fit to be hogtied if Vick is allowed to play now, this is generally what is considered "reaping what you sow."

From ProFootballTalk.com (admittedly a rumor site, but the guy who runs it is a lawyer and as far as I know has been very accurate with his NFL information regarding legal information and documentation):

Under the CBA, the team cannot impose a paid leave on Vick against his will, due to revisions made in 2006 following the Terrell Owens situation, where the Eagles sent him home for the balance of the season with pay.