TMQ smears Walter Payton

[Knighthawk]

Either I've lost my memory, or Gregg Easterbrook just did something really slimy.

There was one star athlete who did not engage in this ritual: Jim Brown. In the early 1980s, as Walter Payton and Franco Harris approached the NFL all-time rushing record he then held, Brown made no pretense of rooting for them. "He can break the record at his convenience because he has the cooperation of his organization," Brown said of Harris. "That's not a feat by my standards. It has nothing to do with overall performance." When Harris was shown the door by Pittsburgh and signed for a final stat-padding season with Seattle, Brown openly derided him. As Payton dragged out his career, Brown sniped that Sweetness was "just hanging around" to break his record.

Can anyone find a source of Brown ever saying anything like that about Payton? Harris, yes, but I remember him as saying that Payton was worthy of the record.

Besides, on what planet was Payton dragging out his career when he broke Brown's record? He had 2,000 total yards and double-digit touchdowns that year and the next year. He helped drag the Bears to a Super Bowl that second season.

 

[pallister]

Them's fightin' words.

 

[GB-Hack]

From what I found online, Brown had no problem with Payton overtaking him in the record books due to his physical running style.

I think Mr. Easterbrook is mistaken here.

 

[hondo]

Then when he got to the Super Bowl, that ****heel Mike Ditka wouldn't give him the ball on the goal line to score a TD. Instead, Fatboy Perry got to score on the gimmick play.

 

[Chi City 81]

You mean somewhere in his 7,000-word weekly dissertation, Easterbrook, who is to sports writing what RokSki is to message board posts, might have made a mistake? And an ESPN.com "copy editor" failed to check it or catch it?

The hell you say, sir.

 

[Piotr Rasputin]

I like Easterbrook.

I think Payton is the greatest runner of all time.

Easterbrook is way off base here.

 

[clutchcargo]

Why would Jim Brown care if anyone broke his career rushing record? He retired at the peak of his career, only about 30-31 years old at the time, to become an actor. He could have played 5-6 more seasons easily and approached 20,000 yards. Brown left the game early, so if he really cared about that mark, he should have hung around a few more years to really put it out of reach.

Clearly, Jim Brown the greatest RB who ever lived.

 

[spud]

How someone reads that entire meandering rambling of his every week is beyond me.

 

[93Devil]

If I remember correctly, Brown had a spell in the 80s where he was pretty much saying anything.

Brown's passer rating is **** compared to Walter's

I need to type that twice because it needs both colors...

Brown's passer rating is **** compared to Walter's.

Payton #1. Sorry Jim, but you left your team high and dry. That has to hurt the all-time rating some.

Brown is still the greatest athlete who ever lived, though.

Bo Jackson is #2.

 

[wickedwritah]

Bo is said to be faster than Brown, and he was a two-sport professional all-star. Yes, generational bias here, but I think you almost have to give it to Bo. Brown never played another sport on a professional level, not to my knowledge.

 

[Chi City 81]

Bo is said to be faster than Brown, and he was a two-sport professional all-star. Yes, generational bias here, but I think you almost have to give it to Bo. Brown never played another sport on a professional level, not to my knowledge.

If there had been professional lacrosse, I'm sure Brown could have.

 

[wickedwritah]

Of course, Doc. But there wasn't. And he didn't.

 

[Chi City 81]

I've never bought the whole two-sport argument when touting an athlete. Hell, Danny Ainge played two sports professionally.

 

[93Devil]

Brown lettered in basketball at SU as well.

He changed the ****ing rules of lax. They had to change the game because he so damn good at it.

Jim Brown. Burt Sugar convinced me years ago.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

Jim Brown was the greatest running back of all time. It's not debatable except by children. Walter Payton was one of the 10 best football players ever, which is pretty freakin good in my opinion. The idea that Brown was less of a player because he retired in his prime is incomprehensible.
5.2 yards a carry for his career. That's the number that counts in this discussion.

 

[wickedwritah]

I've never bought the whole two-sport argument when touting an athlete. Hell, Danny Ainge played two sports professionally.

Danny Ainge was never anything more than a hack third baseman. A borderline basketball all-star.

Bo had Hall of Fame caliber talent in both sports, and if it wasn't for that damn hip injury, he'd already be in Canton and be wrapping up a HOF baseball career as a DH. He'd probably have 650 home runs by now, at least.

 

[93Devil]

Jim Brown was the greatest running back of all time. It's not debatable except by children. Walter Payton was one of the 10 best football players ever, which is pretty freakin good in my opinion. The idea that Brown was less of a player because he retired in his prime is incomprehensible.
5.2 yards a carry for his career. That's the number that counts in this discussion.

Is Koufax the greatest pitcher of all-time?

Just for arguement...

1 - Number of games won by Walter as the starting qb. Im****ingpressive.

 

[Chi City 81]

I've never bought the whole two-sport argument when touting an athlete. Hell, Danny Ainge played two sports professionally.

Danny Ainge was never anything more than a hack third baseman. A borderline basketball all-star.

Bo had Hall of Fame caliber talent in both sports, and if it wasn't for that damn hip injury, he'd already be in Canton and be wrapping up a HOF baseball career as a DH. He'd probably have 650 home runs by now, at least.

Ummm ... no.

1987 24 KCR AL 116 396 46 93 17 2 22 53 10 4 30 158 .235 .296 .455 94 180 1 2 0 5 3
1988 25 KCR AL 124 439 63 108 16 4 25 68 27 6 25 146 .246 .287 .472 108 207 1 2 6 1 6
1989 26 KCR AL 135 515 86 132 15 6 32 105 26 9 39 172 .256 .310 .495 124 255 0 4 8 3 10 MVP-10,AS
1990 27 KCR AL 111 405 74 110 16 1 28 78 15 9 44 128 .272 .342 .523 142 212 0 5 2 2 10

He never hit higher than .272 and never hit more than 32 homers. He was 27 in his last full major-league season. How much better was he going to get?

 

[wickedwritah]

If he juiced like Bonds/Sosa/McGwire and the rest of them, plenty.

 

[daemon]

I've never bought the whole two-sport argument when touting an athlete. Hell, Danny Ainge played two sports professionally.

Danny Ainge was never anything more than a hack third baseman. A borderline basketball all-star.

Bo had Hall of Fame caliber talent in both sports, and if it wasn't for that damn hip injury, he'd already be in Canton and be wrapping up a HOF baseball career as a DH. He'd probably have 650 home runs by now, at least.

Ummm ... no.

1987 24 KCR AL 116 396 46 93 17 2 22 53 10 4 30 158 .235 .296 .455 94 180 1 2 0 5 3
1988 25 KCR AL 124 439 63 108 16 4 25 68 27 6 25 146 .246 .287 .472 108 207 1 2 6 1 6
1989 26 KCR AL 135 515 86 132 15 6 32 105 26 9 39 172 .256 .310 .495 124 255 0 4 8 3 10 MVP-10,AS
1990 27 KCR AL 111 405 74 110 16 1 28 78 15 9 44 128 .272 .342 .523 142 212 0 5 2 2 10

He never hit higher than .272 and never hit more than 32 homers. He was 27 in his last full major-league season. How much better was he going to get?

True, he wouldn't have come close to 650 home runs.

But. . .

His average, slugging and OBP increased sizeably in each of his first four seasons. Home runs per game played increased in each season as well.

Hit 28 jacks in just 111 games his last full season.

And keep in mind that 30 home runs then is what 40 home runs is today.