The solution to the Somali pirates ...

[Batman]

Not to be a buzzkill and be a little serious. But can someone explain this pirate thing to me, in terms I can actually understand? It's 2011, not 1811. There is really no way to stop this, if a bunch of countries band together and make it a priority?

Of course there's a way if we are serious about this, and by "we" I mean the collective group of countries that are most involved. If the Somali government had greeted the first band of pirates at the shore when they returned, lined them up and shot these no-good SOBs and then released the hostages, the attitude might be a whole lot different. As it is now, anyone with a kayak and an automatic weapon thinks they can paddle out onto the high seas and make millions.

The line I hated reading the most in this latest episode was that 13 pirates were detained. I wish they'd been left for the sharks.

There's no such thing as "the Somali government" and there hasn't been for a long time. That's the root of the problem.

Which brings us to this suggestion...

 

[Batman]

I don't think it's an issue of not finding them, but you can kill 10 and there are 30 standing in line to take their place.

I wish I was about 15 years younger and with no family. I'd like to start up a high seas security company along the lines Blackwater to man ships traveling through that area. Heck, I'm a Navy vet that was part of the shipboard security force, so I have experience and training that would transfer over I think.

This was suggested during the first wave of attacks a couple years ago, and largely dismissed for three reasons, IIRC:
1) Cost vs. benefit. The odds of actually being attacked are probably 100-1 or more. To put a security force on EVERY ship traveling through that part of the world would get incredibly expensive in a very short time.
2) Legal issues. I'm a little fuzzy on this one, but I seem to recall some debate over whether it was legal to put armed men on a commercial ship. Something about it turning a freighter into a warship, at least from a legal standpoint. Can be a sticky situation with a U.S. or Israeli flagged ship.
3) Tactical problems. These freighters are HUGE, with lots of blind spots. The pirates' "ships" are mostly fast rubber rafts. They pull up alongside and board, a couple dozen men from two or three of these boats. A security team (probably no more than five or 10 men) can cover some of the strongpoints of the freighter, but it's hard to get them all with that small a force.

Some security firms still do offer security for ships, and some companies hire them. But there are valid reasons why a lot of them don't.

 

[Pilot]

I don't think it's an issue of not finding them, but you can kill 10 and there are 30 standing in line to take their place.

I wish I was about 15 years younger and with no family. I'd like to start up a high seas security company along the lines Blackwater to man ships traveling through that area. Heck, I'm a Navy vet that was part of the shipboard security force, so I have experience and training that would transfer over I think.

This was suggested during the first wave of attacks a couple years ago, and largely dismissed for three reasons, IIRC:
1) Cost vs. benefit. The odds of actually being attacked are probably 100-1 or more. To put a security force on EVERY ship traveling through that part of the world would get incredibly expensive in a very short time.
2) Legal issues. I'm a little fuzzy on this one, but I seem to recall some debate over whether it was legal to put armed men on a commercial ship. Something about it turning a freighter into a warship, at least from a legal standpoint. Can be a sticky situation with a U.S. or Israeli flagged ship.
3) Tactical problems. These freighters are HUGE, with lots of blind spots. The pirates' "ships" are mostly fast rubber rafts. They pull up alongside and board, a couple dozen men from two or three of these boats. A security team (probably no more than five or 10 men) can cover some of the strongpoints of the freighter, but it's hard to get them all with that small a force.

Some security firms still do offer security for ships, and some companies hire them. But there are valid reasons why a lot of them don't.

Interesting stuff.

I've never exactly understood how a bunch of guys in a little rubber boat can manage to board a big oil tanker with big, steep walls unless someone drops a ladder.

 

[Batman]

I don't think it's an issue of not finding them, but you can kill 10 and there are 30 standing in line to take their place.

I wish I was about 15 years younger and with no family. I'd like to start up a high seas security company along the lines Blackwater to man ships traveling through that area. Heck, I'm a Navy vet that was part of the shipboard security force, so I have experience and training that would transfer over I think.

This was suggested during the first wave of attacks a couple years ago, and largely dismissed for three reasons, IIRC:
1) Cost vs. benefit. The odds of actually being attacked are probably 100-1 or more. To put a security force on EVERY ship traveling through that part of the world would get incredibly expensive in a very short time.
2) Legal issues. I'm a little fuzzy on this one, but I seem to recall some debate over whether it was legal to put armed men on a commercial ship. Something about it turning a freighter into a warship, at least from a legal standpoint. Can be a sticky situation with a U.S. or Israeli flagged ship.
3) Tactical problems. These freighters are HUGE, with lots of blind spots. The pirates' "ships" are mostly fast rubber rafts. They pull up alongside and board, a couple dozen men from two or three of these boats. A security team (probably no more than five or 10 men) can cover some of the strongpoints of the freighter, but it's hard to get them all with that small a force.

Some security firms still do offer security for ships, and some companies hire them. But there are valid reasons why a lot of them don't.

Interesting stuff.

I've never exactly understood how a bunch of guys in a little rubber boat can manage to board a big oil tanker with big, steep walls unless someone drops a ladder.

For the most part, I believe they bring their own. Connect them to a lower deck with grappling hooks, climb aboard and then lower the ship's ladder to the rest of the boarding party.

 

[Iron_chet]

My one time potential future brother in law is an ex British Navy commando who did anti-pirate security for certain lines of ships.

The feeling I got from him was that there a lot of ships that have fought off pirates thru means that are not exactly passive.

 

[Shoeless Joe]

It seems to me, if you had 24 guys you could cover most ships with three, eight-man watches. You put two fore, two aft and four amidship, which I think is the most vulnerable. With the design of most of those ships, it would be too difficult to board the fantail. I don't think they're going to get in front of it with their small boats. I doubt they try to board during daylight hours. That would be too easy to spot. Your force has to be outfitted with night vision. When one of the lookouts spots something, you sound GQ and get the entire security detachment topside. Open up, no questions asked, on anyone that isn't part of your group or ship's company.

Legality, screw legality. You're in international waters. Obviously you'd have to make concessions and stow your gear when you start nearing port, but by then, you're out of pirate waters and it's not an issue.

As for the risk/reward issue with the shipping companies, I can see them not thinking it's worth it.

 

[RickStain]

You can't stop the pirates easily because it's a ****ing big ocean.

 

[Batman]

It seems to me, if you had 24 guys you could cover most ships with three, eight-man watches. You put two fore, two aft and four amidship, which I think is the most vulnerable. With the design of most of those ships, it would be too difficult to board the fantail. I don't think they're going to get in front of it with their small boats. I doubt they try to board during daylight hours. That would be too easy to spot. Your force has to be outfitted with night vision. When one of the lookouts spots something, you sound GQ and get the entire security detachment topside. Open up, no questions asked, on anyone that isn't part of your group or ship's company.

Legality, screw legality. You're in international waters. Obviously you'd have to make concessions and stow your gear when you start nearing port, but by then, you're out of pirate waters and it's not an issue.

As for the risk/reward issue with the shipping companies, I can see them not thinking it's worth it.

The expense and risk/reward thing really is the main issue, I believe. Two dozen well-trained mercenaries can easily defend a cargo ship, or take it back if the pirates board. Hell, half that number could probably do it pretty easily, especially with the help of 30 or so crewmen who are trained in basic anti-piracy and close quarter tactics.
Well-trained mercenaries, however, do not come cheap.

 

[Bubbler]

Knows how to handle this.

 

[Rumpleforeskin]

This guy has a better idea...

 

[Shoeless Joe]

You can't stop the pirates easily because it's a ****ing big ocean.

They aren't out prowling the open Indian Ocean. With the small boats the pirates use, they have to be within a 100 miles or so probably of the Somali coast. My guess is their prime waters are at the tip of the country in the Gulf of Aden right as the ships are transiting in and out of the Red Sea. Oceans are big. Shipping lanes are not, by comparison.

 

[Iron_chet]

The pirates have evolved so that a lot of them now operate out of mother ships in the open ocean. There was a couple on a yacht who were taken not that far from Madagascar. Their reach has really extended and they are far beyond only shipping lanes.