The Consulate Thread

[YankeeFan]

On the original thread I wondered whether his security was a US Marine contingent, or US State Department security or whether it was a private contractor like Blackwater/Xe/Academi.

Yes. I'd like to know the answer to this question.

One report I read said his security "retreated". Does that mean they tried to retreat with the Ambassador, or does it mean they abandoned him?

I highly doubt they abandoned the ambassador.

I'd have to find the article, but it used "retreat" to describe the actions his security took after they came under fire, while they were trying to get to a safer location.

And, while I highly doubt US Marines, Special Forces, or contractors were were previously either of those would retreat, I wouldn't be so sure if we're talking about local security.

And, yeah, I imagine we'll learn soon enough. Early reporting is often wrong and/or incomplete.

 

[Boom_70]

"Make no mistake, justice will be done," President Obama said.

Maybe the killing of the Ambassador was was "justice done" by the Khadafi loyalists.
It cuts both ways.

 

[Azrael]

"Tuesday's attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, was planned in advance, and the attackers used the protest outside the consulate as a diversion, U.S. sources told CNN Wednesday."

news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/12/u-s-ambassador-to-libya-3-others-killed-in-rocket-attack-witness-says/

 

[Boom_70]

"Tuesday's attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, was planned in advance, and the attackers used the protest outside the consulate as a diversion, U.S. sources told CNN Wednesday."

news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/12/u-s-ambassador-to-libya-3-others-killed-in-rocket-attack-witness-says/

Whoever planned this must have watched Mission Impossible reruns.

 

[YankeeFan]

"Tuesday's attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, was planned in advance, and the attackers used the protest outside the consulate as a diversion, U.S. sources told CNN Wednesday."

news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/12/u-s-ambassador-to-libya-3-others-killed-in-rocket-attack-witness-says/

If it was "planned in advance" then that would rule out Rev. Jones actions provoking the riots.

And, since this riot likely did take a while to plan, it is likely that the anniversary of 9/11 was the inspiration.

 

[Azrael]

"Tuesday's attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, was planned in advance, and the attackers used the protest outside the consulate as a diversion, U.S. sources told CNN Wednesday."

news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/12/u-s-ambassador-to-libya-3-others-killed-in-rocket-attack-witness-says/

If it was "planned in advance" then that would rule out Rev. Jones actions provoking the riots.

And, since this riot likely did take a while to plan, it is likely that the anniversary of 9/11 was the inspiration.

The riots may still have been real. That remains to be seen.

 

[YankeeFan]

I hope this isn't true:

Wanis al-Sharef, a Libyan Interior Ministry official in Benghazi, said the four Americans were killed when the angry mob, which gathered to protest a U.S.-made film that ridicules Islam's Prophet Muhammad, fired guns and burned down the U.S. consulate in Benghazi.

He said Stevens, 52, and other officials were moved to a second building - deemed safer - after the initial wave of protests at the consulate compound. According to al-Sharef, members of the Libyan security team seem to have indicated to the protesters the building to which the American officials had been relocated, and that building then came under attack.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57511043/assault-on-u.s-consulate-in-benghazi-leaves-4-dead-including-u.s-ambassador-j-christopher-stevens/

 

[Iron_chet]

Isn't Benghazi essentially the seat of the new government?

I'm guessing it's where our Ambassador spent the majority of his time. Embassy or not, our Ambassador and his staff should be kept safe.

I heard an interview on the CBC this morning with some sort of expert that who claimed that while Benghazi was the birth place of the rebellion against Ghadaffi, the new governemnt was made up of people mainly from Tripoli.

Apparently this had led to tensions inside Libya where the founders of the uprising were disenfranchised.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Why is it so very important to find and place blame on people other than the handful of thugs who actually killed these folks?

You do know that sometimes -- like every 20 or 30 years or so -- you post something and I am reminded that I have a mancrush on you?

While we're at it, why have murder trials?

Or accident investigations.

Or, well, journalism. Or lawyers. Or doctors. Or police.

Is this seriously the stance of some people here - journalists, no less: That the circumstances surrounding bloodshed should not be investigated? I recall that was a popular opinion in the wake of the bin Laden raid, but I chalked it up to the heat of that particular moment. Perhaps I was mistaken.

We don't burn the Quran at SportsJournalists.com, thank goodness. But it wouldn't completely surprise me to see a scheduled burn of Jon Krakauer's Pat Tillman book. After all, why blame anyone other than the thug insurgents that shot him? Right?

 

[Boom_70]

Who will be apologizing for this?
Suddenly it's 1979 all over again. Cue up Donna Summer and Gloria Gaynor

 

[cranberry]

Why is it so very important to find and place blame on people other than the handful of thugs who actually killed these folks?

You do know that sometimes -- like every 20 or 30 years or so -- you post something and I am reminded that I have a mancrush on you?

While we're at it, why have murder trials?

Or accident investigations.

Or, well, journalism. Or lawyers. Or doctors. Or police.

Is this seriously the stance of some people here - journalists, no less: That the circumstances surrounding bloodshed should not be investigated? I recall that was a popular opinion in the wake of the bin Laden raid, but I chalked it up to the heat of that particular moment. Perhaps I was mistaken.

We don't burn the Quran at SportsJournalists.com, thank goodness. But it wouldn't completely surprise me to see a scheduled burn of Jon Krakauer's Pat Tillman book. After all, why blame anyone other than the thug insurgents that shot him? Right?

I'm all for genuine, sober investigation. I'm completely against the breathless search for and positioning of scapegoats to fit posters' preconceived viewpoints. It's distasteful in the aftermath of a tragedy like this.

 

[KJIM]

As someone who's in line to work at embassy next starting year and reporting directly to an ambassador, this scares the **** out of me.

And I say that as someone who lived in both Morocco and Indonesia.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Why is it so very important to find and place blame on people other than the handful of thugs who actually killed these folks?

You do know that sometimes -- like every 20 or 30 years or so -- you post something and I am reminded that I have a mancrush on you?

While we're at it, why have murder trials?

Or accident investigations.

Or, well, journalism. Or lawyers. Or doctors. Or police.

Is this seriously the stance of some people here - journalists, no less: That the circumstances surrounding bloodshed should not be investigated? I recall that was a popular opinion in the wake of the bin Laden raid, but I chalked it up to the heat of that particular moment. Perhaps I was mistaken.

We don't burn the Quran at SportsJournalists.com, thank goodness. But it wouldn't completely surprise me to see a scheduled burn of Jon Krakauer's Pat Tillman book. After all, why blame anyone other than the thug insurgents that shot him? Right?

I'm all for genuine, sober investigation. I'm completely against the breathless search for and positioning of scapegoats to fit posters' preconceived viewpoints. It's distasteful in the aftermath of a tragedy like this.

Fair enough. I wasn't sure - and still have no idea - how the politics were lining up behind the approach to coverage/discussion here.

 

[YankeeFan]

As someone who's in line to work at embassy next starting year and reporting directly to an ambassador, this scares the **** out of me.

And I say that as someone who lived in both Morocco and Indonesia.

The early part of the Ambassador's career sounds a lot like yours. Peace Corp volunteer, taught English in Morocco too, I believe.

 

[KJIM]

As someone who's in line to work at embassy next starting year and reporting directly to an ambassador, this scares the **** out of me.

And I say that as someone who lived in both Morocco and Indonesia.

The early part of the Ambassador's career sounds a lot like yours. Peace Corp volunteer, taught English in Morocco too, I believe.

It is very frightening. I'm just hoping my mom doesn't put this together. I still don't know the positions of the other two who were killed ... I will really be freaked if it turns out that's what I'm in line for.

The second guy identified was the information systems officer or something like that. Father of two.

The position I'm applying for in Tunisia was filled this last go-round, so it won't be open. But I do wonder what I'll bid for when it comes time for me. Both Cairo and Tunis would have been really attractive to me at one point, but now it's a bit freaky.

I've visited a couple of embassies overseas and they seem safe, but angry mobs aren't the norm.

 

[Bubbler]

Who will be apologizing for this?
Suddenly it's 1979 all over again. Cue up Donna Summer and Gloria Gaynor

It's funny and it's sad.

A_QB is right in that 100 percent of the blame goes to the perpetrators of this crime. He may be reading all kinds of nonsense into others' questions about how it happened, but at it's core, he's absolutely right.

Yet you have those who are not so subtlety trying to take political advantage of the situation and blame the current leadership for it, or, make a historic comparison that holds absolutely no water whatsoever. See linked post.

I'm no flag-waver, but to try and mine political gain out of this is pretty damn unpatriotic. Using a situation where a bunch of thugs attacked a U.S. embassy/consulate to give yourself a hard-on by comparing Obama to Carter before the bodies are even cold is odious.

At least A_QB focuses his ire in the right direction.

 

[YankeeFan]

Yet you have those who are not so subtlety trying to take political advantage of the situation and blame the current leadership for it, or, make a historic comparison that holds absolutely no water whatsoever.

Why is it wrong for a politician to try to gain political advantage, based on the response of our President to a crisis?

If he feels the response was poor, shouldn't he point it out?

I'm no flag-waver, but to try and mine political gain out of this is pretty damn unpatriotic.

Really? Questioning the patriotism of someone you disagree with? I thought that was really frowned upon by folks on the left. They're always crying about it, even when no one has questioned it.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Yet you have those who are not so subtlety trying to take political advantage of the situation and blame the current leadership for it, or, make a historic comparison that holds absolutely no water whatsoever.

Why is it wrong for a politician to try to gain political advantage, based on the response of our President to a crisis?

If he feels the response was poor, shouldn't he point it out?

I'm no flag-waver, but to try and mine political gain out of this is pretty damn unpatriotic.

Really? Questioning the patriotism of someone you disagree with? I thought that was really frowned upon by folks on the left. They're always crying about it, even when no one has questioned it.

Can someone update me? I thought Romney completely botched this last night. Didn't he? Wasn't the release about the video put out well before the attack? What am I missing?

 

[dreunc1542]

Yet you have those who are not so subtlety trying to take political advantage of the situation and blame the current leadership for it, or, make a historic comparison that holds absolutely no water whatsoever.

Why is it wrong for a politician to try to gain political advantage, based on the response of our President to a crisis?

If he feels the response was poor, shouldn't he point it out?

I'm no flag-waver, but to try and mine political gain out of this is pretty damn unpatriotic.

Really? Questioning the patriotism of someone you disagree with? I thought that was really frowned upon by folks on the left. They're always crying about it, even when no one has questioned it.

Can someone update me? I thought Romney completely botched this last night. Didn't he? Wasn't the release about the video put out well before the attack? What am I missing?

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/09/when_you_learn_theyre_not_ready.php?m=1

 

[Boom_70]

Who will be apologizing for this?
Suddenly it's 1979 all over again. Cue up Donna Summer and Gloria Gaynor

It's funny and it's sad.

A_QB is right in that 100 percent of the blame goes to the perpetrators of this crime. He may be reading all kinds of nonsense into others' questions about how it happened, but at it's core, he's absolutely right.

Yet you have those who are not so subtlety trying to take political advantage of the situation and blame the current leadership for it, or, make a historic comparison that holds absolutely no water whatsoever. See linked post.

I'm no flag-waver, but to try and mine political gain out of this is pretty damn unpatriotic. Using a situation where a bunch of thugs attacked a U.S. embassy/consulate to give yourself a hard-on by comparing Obama to Carter before the bodies are even cold is odious.

At least A_QB focuses his ire in the right direction.

Who has compared Obama to Carter?

I also do not think that this was just a "group of thugs" attacking the consulate.
I think that there is more to it.

And yes it does remind me of 1979 in many ways. Since you brought up Carter polls showed him winning at the same point we are at now.