The 30 Greatest Living American Songwriters

[No Phonies]

Because the critic list is dishonest and woke.

Most of them are now.

In 2022, for example, Sight and Sound came out with its list of best films ever made. It comes out every 10 years and there had been some durability to the rankings over time. Citizen Kane, Tokyo Story, Rules of the Game, etc.

In 2022, tho, the top movie is suddenly a Belgian movie that hadn't been in the top 25 before - hadn't been in the top 100 before 2012 - from...1975. 3 hours long.

Now, I have seen this movie. I have an appreciation for it. Almost no one has seen this movie, or ever will, and it is a test of any regular moviegoer's patience. Even a seasoned moviegoer's patience. It's a lesser, stripped down version of Cleo from 5 to 7 or Belle Du Jour, a portrait of quiet desperation, etc. etc. And it's the No. 1 movie of all time, the pinnacle of film art, all of the sudden, because it's a feminist parable of a certain kind and it is, for almost its entire length, crushingly slow.

But it does not reflect the joy or beauty or possibility of film. I would take any movie that Sofia Coppola or Kelly Reichardt or Lynne Ramsey or Jane Campion has made over this movie, if we want to highlight women filmmakers, and so would just about anyone. Except the Sight and Sound critics. (And the directors who went from not ranking the movie in their top 100 in 2012 to suddenly No. 4 in 2022.)

LOL

Are you seeing a therapist? Because you should be.

 

[No Phonies]

Yes, I know, "Therapy is woke, blah blah blah Lester Bangs, blah blah blah showcase women, blah blah blah Fellini." There, saved you some keystrokes.

 

[No Phonies]

It should be FUN to debate the lists. Where's the fun in insecure white dudes getting bent out of shape over a LIST of songwriters? There's enough of you in other areas of life, let's not ruin this too.

 

[Meat Slapping Sound]

No one even knows what "woke" means anymore, least of all the people who say it the most.

 

[Alma]

No one even knows what "woke" means anymore, least of all the people who say it the most.

Oh, I think most people do, including people on this thread, about this subject.

 

[No Phonies]

Oh, I think most people do, including people on this thread, about this subject.

Why don't you explain what YOU think it means. You sure use it a lot.

 

[micropolitan guy]

Oh, I think most people do, including people on this thread, about this subject.

To most here, "woke" means like acting like a human being.

 

[Meat Slapping Sound]

Oh, I think most people do, including people on this thread, about this subject.

No, most people don't because too many people are using the term to describe more and more things with which they simply disagree.

Like lists about songwriters.

 

[Alma]

It should be FUN to debate the lists.

Depends on the sincerity of the list.

The list was so much rage bait that the NYT, three weeks after the release of the list, added 11 more, with a big ol picture of Billy Joel.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/28/...newsletter-greatest-american-songwriters.html

 

[Alma]

To most here, "woke" means like acting like a human being.

Or a good human being, at any rate. I agree that most people here think precisely that.

Is the list acting the byproduct of people acting like human beings? I think it is. Makes for good humans. Not necessarily great lists of art.

 

[Alma]

No, most people don't because too many people are using the term to describe more and more things with which they simply disagree.

Like lists about songwriters.

It's an objectively bad list if you're selecting 30 the greatest living songwriters.

If you're creating a list designed to honor some of our legendary songwriters while platforming newer songwriters, who aren't anywhere near our 30 greatest living songwriters, to nevertheless appreciate, on one's way to being a well-rounded human being, then it is a good list.

 

[Meat Slapping Sound]

It's an objectively bad list if you're selecting 30 the greatest living songwriters.

If you're creating a list designed to honor some of our legendary songwriters while platforming newer songwriters, who aren't anywhere near our 30 greatest living songwriters, to nevertheless appreciate, on one's way to being a well-rounded human being, then it is a good list.

You can say it's a bad list, and I'd probably agree with you. That's the fun of these discussions. But that's not all you did.

Also, there's nothing objective about songwriting or being the "greatest" at it.

 

[Chet Lemon]

In fairness, @Alma is not on an island here. Many pixels have been expended on the phenomenon of middle-aged white dude critics pretending to like Taylor Swift and Sabrina Carpenter and the like.

 

[Meat Slapping Sound]

In fairness, @Alma is not on an island here. Many pixels have been expended on the phenomenon of middle-aged white dude critics pretending to like Taylor Swift and Sabrina Carpenter and the like.

Are they pretending they like Taylor Swift, or are they just respecting her particular talent? You don't have to like someone to include them in a list like this. I can't stand Bruce Springsteen, but I'd still probably include him on a list like this.

And I'm not sure anyone anywhere said Alma was the only person who was wrong here. Other people are allowed to be wrong.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

In fairness, @Alma is not on an island here. Many pixels have been expended on the phenomenon of middle-aged white dude critics pretending to like Taylor Swift and Sabrina Carpenter and the like.

But that doesn't mean they are woke.

 

[Chet Lemon]

Are they pretending they like Taylor Swift, or are they just respecting her particular talent? You don't have to like someone to include them in a list like this. I can't stand Bruce Springsteen, but I'd still probably include him on a list like this.

And I'm not sure anyone anywhere said Alma was the only person who was wrong here. Other people are allowed to be wrong.

Pop was probably underrated for many decades, and there has been a bit of an overcorrection, critically.

Swift isn’t the best example, though. It’s like when old men (like me!) tell me pitchers don’t need to throw hard because look at Greg Maddux! You can’t use a unicorn as your example.

 

[Alma]

And let's be clear, too: We have increasingly moved toward an art culture where it is not fun or even OK to debate if the debate may offend some progressive moral imperative. What's chalked up to "personal preference" is actually closer to orthodoxy.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

DRINK!

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

SINGLE SECULAR MOMENT EXPERIENCE!!!!!

 

[Inky_Wretch]

"And, therefore, this is why I think we need a GamerGate moment for music critics!"