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[Boom_70]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

I have to agree a little with Obama's reaction to Zeleny. What difference does it make if he used a heater or not. That is, indeed, a People-esque question.

You don't think there are people, ordinary people, the so-called general public, that would be interested to know a person seemingly standing out in the elements just as they are is, in fact, somewhat warmed by an unseen heater? I like Obama, but the question is not People-y.

At least not in my opinion.

I think that if the average person gives a swut about whether or not he uses a heater and lets that determine for whom he votes, then perhaps that person shouldn't be voting. It is People-esque in that it's focusing on something of no substance. How he responds to more important issues is what interests me.

Alley you seem to be a little defensive about your guy here.

If Obama can't deal with a question about the heater how is going to deal with things when the campaign really heats up? How will he deal with the pressure of the presidency?

Dowd is very good at drilling down and finding the worst in political canidates. She has a real knack for seeing throught the bonami finish.

This sentence from her column is just about perfect in discribing the day. You end up with perfect picture- Obama looking like one of actors from "Reefer Madness"

"Beyond his smooth-jazz façade, the reassuring baritone and that ensorcelling smile, the 45-year-old had moments of looking conflicted."

 

[alleyallen]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

See, this is a problem we as journalists sometimes fail to see. To us, the detail makes the story, and Obama, something people can relate to. But the average reader looks at the story and goes "WTF? Who cares about a heater? What about health care?"

Journalists far too often overemphasize the importance of how they write as opposed to what they write. We can stand there and marvel at the beauty of a story, but if it fails to focus on what's really important and if it fails to inform, the most incredibly-written piece is still drivel to the readers.

 

[Pringle]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

Pringle, if I ask a fielder if the lights got in his eyes, it's because he missed the fly ball. Direct cause-and-effect. If I ask Obama if he used a heater, how does that address whether or not he or his message was received. To me, that's far more important than these "details" everyone keeps highlighting. It tells me nothing about Obama that truly matters.

The analogy isn't perfect. But the point is, when you're covering an event - and a campaign as a whole qualifies as an event - you want to get every detail you can that you didn't directly witness.

There is a tremendous book I read last year on the making of "Blood on the Tracks." Do I need to know that Dylan scrapped all of his New York sessions and re-recorded everything in Minnesota in order to enjoy the album? No. But it still makes for interesting background.

We're making quite a leap here. He asked a question about a heater. All of a sudden, he must be writing a "fluff" piece about "what kind of guy" Obama is?

I'm sorry, but this is Feature Writing 101.

 

[alleyallen]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

Obama's not my guy, Boom. Personally, I'm not all that fired up about him. What I get defensive about, though, is Dowd's use of that question as an example of Obama's testiness at times.

If you ever saw Real Genius, at the beginning Prof. Hathaway is talking to Mitch's mom and she refers to an episode on some incredibly complex issue. Thinking the mom was going to ask a good scientific question, he was caught off guard when she instead asked "Is that your real hair?"

If I were Obama and I'd just given my speech, I'd probably be pissed too if a reporter focused on a heater instead of my speech. Just what were you paying attention to, Mr. Reporter?

 

[Johnny Dangerously]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

Average Joe: "Wow, I'm freezing my nuts off, and this guy looks pretty comfortable."

Average Joe after reading the newspaper the next day: "Well, no wonder."

It's not life and death, but it's not insignificant either. I think, Alley, you are taking one question about one detail and suggesting the reporter wants to make that "the story." Maybe Maureen is, in a way, but not the reporter who asked the question. It was just one question.

I think she's pointing out he might not be prepared for the all-encompassing scrutiny.

 

[alleyallen]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

Pringle, if I ask a fielder if the lights got in his eyes, it's because he missed the fly ball. Direct cause-and-effect. If I ask Obama if he used a heater, how does that address whether or not he or his message was received. To me, that's far more important than these "details" everyone keeps highlighting. It tells me nothing about Obama that truly matters.

The analogy isn't perfect. But the point is, when you're covering an event - and a campaign as a whole qualifies as an event - you want to get every detail you can that you didn't directly witness.

There is a tremendous book I read last year on the making of "Blood on the Tracks." Do I need to know that Dylan scrapped all of his New York sessions and re-recorded everything in Minnesota in order to enjoy the album? No. But it still makes for interesting background.

We're making quite a leap here. He asked a question about a heater. All of a sudden, he must be writing a "fluff" piece about "what kind of guy" Obama is?

I'm sorry, but this is Feature Writing 101.

Pringle, I don't need you to tell me about Feature Writing 101. I was in the journalism business for 15 years, so I'm well aware of what that is. And the example you used was a BOOK, not a newspaper story.

And I'm not the one making the leap to fluff piece. I'm simply saying I agree with Obama's reaction to the question in the first place.

 

[John D. Villarreal]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

See, this is a problem we as journalists sometimes fail to see. To us, the detail makes the story, and Obama, something people can relate to. But the average reader looks at the story and goes "WTF? Who cares about a heater? What about health care?"

Journalists far too often overemphasize the importance of how they write as opposed to what they write. We can stand there and marvel at the beauty of a story, but if it fails to focus on what's really important and if it fails to inform, the most incredibly-written piece is still drivel to the readers.

Very well said - agree 100%

 

[Pringle]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

Who says he was "focusing" on it?

And so now we're all supposed to fall lockstep into the AP lede?

I mean, by the time the Times hit front porches the next morning, Obama's speech had been dissected and re-dissected over and over on every 24-hour news channel. So a writer was trying to peel back the layers and get to the story behind the story? I'm seriously surprised that someone has an issue with that on a journalism message board?

 

[Pringle]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

Listen, no one gets more annoyed than me at the way politics are covered - the horse race over the issues.

But there is nothing wrong with a reporter trying to reconstruct a scene down to its details. Nothing.

 

[John D. Villarreal]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

Boom nice story/thread I was going to post this but got tied up. Props.

Mo Dowd is lame & the story is more drek but it is funny to see the feud erupt. Not sure if she is carrying water for Hill or if this is the ax she has to grind now that they had their blowup over the "ears" comment/confrontation.

Of course, it could be she needs another target for her wannabe Sex in the City...err "political" columns.

I honestly have no clue how she can put together 1/2 of her columns in good conscience. As AA says, yeah they may read well (think romance novel..Jackie Collins anyone?), but she says nothing of any import/gravitas.

JDV

 

[Boom_70]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

Boom nice story/thread I was going to post this but got tied up. Props.

Mo Dowd is lame & the story is more drek but it is funny to see the feud erupt. Not sure if she is carrying water for Hill or if this is the ax she has to grind now that they had their blowup over the "ears" comment/confrontation.

Of course, it could be she needs another target for her wannabe Sex in the City...err "political" columns.

I honestly have no clue how she can put together 1/2 of her columns in good conscience. As AA says, yeah they may read well (think romance novel..Jackie Collins anyone?), but she says nothing of any import/gravitas.

JDV

Thanks JDV . I happen to like her work.

Last week she popped Hillary's balloon in a column. so I don't think that was her reason.

Here is what she wrote in her column last week - "Mamma Hugs Iowa"

"Hillary didn't have the nerve to oppose a popular president on a national security issue after 9/11, and she feared being cast as an antiwar hippie when she ran. Now she feels she can't simply say she made a bad decision. And that makes her seem conniving -- not a good mix with nurturing"

 

[Johnny Dangerously]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

Narration: Many people in the West wondered whether the 74-year-old Ronald Reagan was up to taking on the 54-year-old Mikhail Gorbachev.

Interview: Donald Regan, White House chief of staff

"The president's aide came in and said, 'Mr President, you know, do you wanna put your coat on?' And he said, 'Oh, I'm not sure.' And somebody said, 'Well, it's very cold outside. You should really wear a coat.' It was announced that the Soviet cavalcade was at the gates. And Reagan turned and, without putting on his overcoat, walked to the door. And there was much speculation as to whether this 'tired old man', president of the United States, could keep up with this 'wily, energetic, young, vigorous communist.' And to the amazement of the world, the old man goes down the steps -- lickety split -- meets and greets the Soviet leader who comes out all bundled up in an overcoat, hat, muffler, looking as though he were in Iceland rather than Geneva."


Those who remember that might agree it's a story that supports my argument and Alley's at the same time.

 

[Sportsbruh]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

Even a black man with white blood in him doesn't get a pass.

he probably hate the ******* blood that's in his veins.

 

[alleyallen]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

Now on that example, Mr. Dangerously, I definitely agree with you.

 

[alleyallen]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

And for the record, I'm not calling into question Dowd's ability as a writer. I just took a bit of umbrage with that one particular question, not the spirit of the article.

 

[da el g]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

Even a black man with white blood in him doesn't get a pass.

he probably hate the ******* blood that's in his veins.

wow, just wow scoop

this will not end well

 

[alleyallen]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

Even a black man with white blood in him doesn't get a pass.

he probably hate the ******* blood that's in his veins.

wow, just wow scoop

this will not end well

I'm glad you pointed this out, da el g, because the first thing in my mind was, WTF?

 

[John D. Villarreal]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

Boom nice story/thread I was going to post this but got tied up. Props.

Mo Dowd is lame & the story is more drek but it is funny to see the feud erupt. Not sure if she is carrying water for Hill or if this is the ax she has to grind now that they had their blowup over the "ears" comment/confrontation.

Of course, it could be she needs another target for her wannabe Sex in the City...err "political" columns.

I honestly have no clue how she can put together 1/2 of her columns in good conscience. As AA says, yeah they may read well (think romance novel..Jackie Collins anyone?), but she says nothing of any import/gravitas.

JDV

Thanks JDV . I happen to like her work.

Last week she popped Hillary's balloon in a column. so I don't think that was her reason.

Here is what she wrote in her column last week - "Mamma Hugs Iowa"

"Hillary didn't have the nerve to oppose a popular president on a national security issue after 9/11, and she feared being cast as an antiwar hippie when she ran. Now she feels she can't simply say she made a bad decision. And that makes her seem conniving -- not a good mix with nurturing"

Hey Boom, sure that is cool - clearly she has talent. I mean for better or worse she writes for the Times so that obviously means something.

My thing is I don't like her style in that the same SITC lense/paradigm that gets overlayed on everything. Now maybe that is a niche/audience that needs to be covered. The NYT has to make that call.

I just think it cheapens her talents by not zeroing in on the more substantive issues/news. You point on Hill is noted thanks for that.

Oh well, free country and all

 

[Boom_70]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

The weather and the elements have always been a issue in presidential politics.

Here is good example:

Cheney stood out in a sea of black-coated world leaders because he was wearing an olive drab parka with a fur-trimmed hood. It is embroidered with his name. It reminded one of the way in which children's clothes are inscribed with their names before they are sent away to camp. And indeed, the vice president looked like an awkward boy amid the well-dressed adults.

Like other attendees, the vice president was wearing a hat. But it was not a fedora or a Stetson or a fur hat or any kind of hat that one might wear to a memorial service as the representative of one's country. Instead, it was a knit ski cap, embroidered with the words "Staff 2001." It was the kind of hat a conventioneer might find in a goodie bag.

It is also worth mentioning that Cheney was wearing hiking boots -- thick, brown, lace-up ones. Did he think he was going to have to hike the 44 miles from Krakow -- where he had made remarks earlier in the day -- to Auschwitz?

 

[John D. Villarreal]

Re: Mo Dowd Sticks a Pin in the Obama Balloon

Narration: Many people in the West wondered whether the 74-year-old Ronald Reagan was up to taking on the 54-year-old Mikhail Gorbachev.

Interview: Donald Regan, White House chief of staff

"The president's aide came in and said, 'Mr President, you know, do you wanna put your coat on?' And he said, 'Oh, I'm not sure.' And somebody said, 'Well, it's very cold outside. You should really wear a coat.' It was announced that the Soviet cavalcade was at the gates. And Reagan turned and, without putting on his overcoat, walked to the door. And there was much speculation as to whether this 'tired old man', president of the United States, could keep up with this 'wily, energetic, young, vigorous communist.' And to the amazement of the world, the old man goes down the steps -- lickety split -- meets and greets the Soviet leader who comes out all bundled up in an overcoat, hat, muffler, looking as though he were in Iceland rather than Geneva."


Those who remember that might agree it's a story that supports my argument and Alley's at the same time.

Now THAT is great writing & backstory with MAJOR purpose and impact.

That gives you real inside stuff with punch & direct realtionship to the news.

Great find!