Stanton and 61

[JC]

Amphetamines and steroids are both drugs. ... but they didn't have the same effect on baseball.

Amphetamines enabled performance. Players could show up hung over, have a cup of coffee with an additive or pop a greenie, and it helped them get through the next couple of hours. Speed didn't make them hit the ball farther or throw it harder than they naturally were able to.

Steroids enhanced performance. It's why home run records started getting obliterated and middle relievers were suddenly all throwing 94 mph instead of 86 mph.

Both might have left their mark on baseball, but as a matter of degree, one probably changed the game way more than the other did.

And now they don't distguish between the two and you get the same suspension.

Also allowing you to play means you wouldn't otherwise be on the field or you would be awful if you were.

 

[Sea Bass]

I think enabling vs. enhancing is splitting hairs.

Greenies made/make players better than they would have been without them.

Steroids made/make players better than they would have been without them.

 

[RickStain]

"Enabling" and "enhancing" is distinction without meaningful difference. Even if it were accurate, which it isn't.

Modern PEDs are about enabling workouts.

 

[manky_jimy]

To me, the interesting question is trying to figure out how much greater the clean players would have been if they had uses steroids.

A reasonable estimate for Jeter is that he would have hit around 30 points higher, and would have had 35-40 HR power. This puts him at about 4,000 career hits and 400-500 career homers.

And, it probably swings a few more World Series titles to the Yankees. For sure 2001 and 2003, and likely '97, '04, and '12 as well.

 

[Riptide]

That might be the Mankyest Manky ever.

 

[RickStain]

Jeter would have bulked himself off of short (not that he belonged there) and become a mid-tier LFer

 

[manky_jimy]

Jeter would have bulked himself off of short (not that he belonged there) and become a mid-tier LFer

You think a leftfielder that hits .350 with 40 HRs would be mid-tier? (numbers Jeter would have put up if he was on roids)

 

[manky_jimy]

A-Rod used steroids and could still handle shortstop, so I'm sure Jeter could have too..

 

[outofplace]

You think a leftfielder that hits .350 with 40 HRs would be mid-tier? (numbers Jeter would have put up if he was on roids)

We don't know that Jeter didn't take steroids. We do know he had Yankee teammates who used them.

 

[manky_jimy]

We don't know that Jeter didn't take steroids. We do know he had Yankee teammates who used them.

His career high in HRs was 24. And you think he used steroids ?

 

[outofplace]

His career high in HRs was 24. And you think he used steroids ?

I'm probably going to hate myself for bothering to respond to your foolishness, but I'll do it anyway. Startling Marte's single-season career high in home runs is 19 and he got busted for PED use. Dee Gordon's career high for a season is four home runs and he got busted for PEDs. Those are just two examples. There are plenty of others.

I never said I thought Jeter used. I don't make those types of accusations when there is no evidence. But you don't know that he was clean and if he wasn't, you don't know how using them would have changed his career.

 

[Doc Holliday]

a bunch of old color analysts and sports writers channeling Ford Frick and attaching asterisks

What's wrong with being an old sports writer?

 

[manky_jimy]

I'm probably going to hate myself for bothering to respond to your foolishness, but I'll do it anyway. Startling Marte's single-season career high in home runs is 19 and he got busted for PED use. Dee Gordon's career high for a season is four home runs and he got busted for PEDs. Those are just two examples. There are plenty of others.

I never said I thought Jeter used. I don't make those types of accusations when there is no evidence. But you don't know that he was clean and if he wasn't, you don't know how using them would have changed his career.

Jeter was the face of MLB for 20 years, and played half of his career after drug testing was implemented. If he had cheated, we'd have heard about it.

 

[outofplace]

If he had been caught, we probably would have heard about it. Or maybe like many others, he got away with it.