Before the USC controversy, Michigan State and Notre Dame agreed to recognize 60th anniversary in 2026

[shanny4055]

Are ties required attire for all attending Notre Dame players/coaches/fans?

Vagas and me at the 2024 book signing at Notre Dame bookstore:

 

[shanny4055]

Wasn't Rocky Bleier also on that Notre Dame team?

Yes. The game was so physical he says in THE RIGHT THING TO DO he was peeing blood after the game. He
suffered a lacerated liver.

Both Bleier and Notre Dame backup safety Mike Burgner served in Vietnam. A couple of Michigan State players, too.
Burgner says in RAYE OF LIGHT the stadium was so loud you could not hear the person next to you on the sideline.

Books by Tom Shanahan – Tom Shanahan Report

 

[Inky_Wretch]

A true Game of the Century requires buildup.

Ohio State was No. 1 until it was upset by Michigan on November 17, 1969. Not until then did No. 2 Texas and No. 3 Arkansas move up to 1-2.
Texas beat Notre Dame in the Cotton Bowl, but Arkansas lost to No. 13 Ole Miss in the Sugar Bowl.
Penn State, No. 2 in the final poll, finished 11-0 with an Orange Bowl in over No. 6 Missouri.

Sorry, but you aren’t the arbiter of such things. There are many “Games of the Century” - which is a silly designation in the first place.

That said, AI is on my side. And you can’t argue with SkyNet.

 

[LanceyHoward]

Wasn't Rocky Bleier also on that Notre Dame team?

Yes.

 

[LanceyHoward]

Two of 1966 Michigan State's College Football Hall of Famers were Bubba Smith as a 6-7, 285 DE and George Webster a 6-4, 245 Rover. They were taken 1st overall and 5th overall in the 1967 NFL draft.

Two of Notre Dame's College Football Hall of Famers were Alan Page as a 6-4, 245 DT and Jim Lynch LB 6-1, 235. They were selected 17th in the first round and in the second round. Lynch also won the Maxwell Award (the other Heisman), although he says in both of my books, RAYE OF LIGHT and THE RIGHT THING TO DO, and in THE BIGGEST GAME OF ALL that Webster should have won the 1966 Heisman (Steve Spurrier won it).

It is a sign of my dementia that I forgot George Webster, who was the best player on the field that day. He was a rover at Michigan State which was basically their strong safety. In the NFL he was drafted by the Oilers and made first team All-AFL linebacker his first three years before he suffered an injury that basically ruined him.

Brad Van Pelt came along at MSU a couple years after Webster and played the same position in their defense, won the Maxwell and later went to five Pro Bowls but was Webster was much better, Webster had a size/speed combination comparable to Lawrence Taylor. We could probably start a thread on this topic but Webster is probably the best player not in Canton. This is due to the fact that he only had three good years while playing for a mediocre AFL team

 

[micropolitan guy]

Likely so. That undefeated team was the last hurrah before a mini-crash that saw Bama lose 17 games over the next four seasons, the final ones as an all-white team.

Michigan State did indeed find a gold mine of success in the 60s recruiting Southern blacks when few others would, at least at the volume the Spartans did.

Minnesota had some success in the early 1960s by having black players before many of its contemporaries, too.

 

[ChrisLong]

USC's first black quarterback under Coach John McKay was Jimmy Jones (1970). Some insiders insisted that McKay took so much **** over that, he would never have another black QB. Then in 1974, Pat Haden got his brain scrambled in a game at Pitt and he was replaced by ...... Vince Evans. At that time, people only knew the name, not the person. They were surprised that Vince Evans was black. Also on the team was a defensive lineman named Otis Page, who was white.

 

[shanny4055]

Sorry, but you aren’t the arbiter of such things. There are many “Games of the Century” - which is a silly designation in the first place.

That said, AI is on my side. And you can’t argue with SkyNet.

View attachment 21529

“What puts a real Game of the Century over the top is when it’s got greater meaning or context – Michigan State coach Duffy Daugherty … he’s got 20 African American players, and he’s got Jimmy Raye as an African American quarterback.”

--- Jerry Barca, author Big Blue Wrecking Crew and producer of documentary on Notre Dame’s Father Theodore Hesburgh.

--- 1935, Ohio State-Notre Dame was the fifth game of the season. Notre Dame won, but the next two weeks it lost to Northwestern and tied Army to finish 7-1-1. Minnesota was declared the 1935 national champion by Helms and NCF. The AP poll didn’t begin until 1937.

--- 1966, Notre Dame and Michigan State was the ninth game and 10th and final game for Michigan State. Notre Dame finished 9-0-1. Michigan State finished 9-0-1. Notre Dame voted No. 1 by AP, UPI and FWAA and co-champions with Michigan State by NFF.

--- 1993, Florida State-Notre Dame was the 10th game won by Notre Dame. Notre Dame lost the next week to Boston College, a 9-3 team, and finished 11-1 and No. 2. Florida State finished 12-1 and No. 1.

--- 1971, Nebraska at Oklahoma was the last regular-season game for both schools. Nebraska won and finished 13-0 and No. 1. Oklahoma finished 11-1 and No. 2. This was the first Game of the Century with two fully integrated rosters.

--- 1969, Texas at Arkansas. Ohio State was No. 1 and Texas No. 2 until Ohio State was upset by Michigan in the last game of the regular season. Texas beat No. 2 Arkansas. Both teams were still segregated rosters. That’s not America. Texas was the last all-White national champion. Nixon grandstanded to attend the game, playing on racism as he did with his “Southern Strategy” in the 1968 election.

 

[shanny4055]

USC's first black quarterback under Coach John McKay was Jimmy Jones (1970). Some insiders insisted that McKay took so much **** over that, he would never have another black QB. Then in 1974, Pat Haden got his brain scrambled in a game at Pitt and he was replaced by ...... Vince Evans. At that time, people only knew the name, not the person. They were surprised that Vince Evans was black. Also on the team was a defensive lineman named Otis Page, who was white.

Jimmy Jones played 1969-71. He was one of only four Black starters on USC's 1970 team that played Alabama. USC followed an unwritten quota limiting Black players to a half-dozen or so. There were only five Black players on the 1962 national title team and only seven on the 1967 national title team despite the diversity and population of Los Angeles.
Minnesota's Sandy Stephens of Uniontown, PA., was the first Black quarterback to win a national title in 1960. Michigan State's Jimmy Raye, recruited out of segregated Fayetteville, N.C., aboard Duffy Daugherty's Underground Railroad, was the South's first Black quarterback to win a national title in 1965 and 1966.

Jimmy Jones stood on the shoulders of Sandy Stephens, Jimmy Raye and other Black players in the 1960s.

Three Black Teenagers Changed the Face of College Football and Got Written Out of History – Tom Shanahan Report

 

[shanny4055]

Minnesota had some success in the early 1960s by having black players before many of its contemporaries,

Minnesota only had five Black players on its 1960 national title team. Remember the unwritten quota limitations. Bobby Bell told me how he ended up at Minnesota. The story is told in THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Bell said North Carolina coach Jim Tatum saw him in the 1959 North Carolina Negro Shrine All-Star Game. Remember, segregation back then so there was a Shrine Game for White players and a Black Shrine Game. Tatum phoned his friend Minnesota coach Murray Warmath about Bell. Warmath wasn't interested in a player sight unseen. Tatum told he would pay Bell's scholarship if he didn't work out. Remember, this is 1959. Coaches didn't make anything more than a professor. After Bell's success on the freshmen team, Warmath asked him if he had any friends. He said yes, Carl Eller. That's how Eller ended up at Minnesota in 1960. Warmath didn't have another Black player from the South until Charlie Sanders in 1964.

Duffy Daugherty had 44 Black players from the South from 1959 to 1972. Black high school coaches and White southerners opposed to segregation steered Black players to him. Duffy didn't recruit the South. The South recruited him.

The 1960s sports media avoided race. As a consequence, there are many misconceptions involving schools like Minnesota and many myths involving USC.

Duffy Daugherty and Michigan State stand alone. The unwritten quota limitations began to crumble in the late 1960s after the 1966 Game of the Century.

 

[ChrisLong]

Jimmy Jones played 1969-71. He was one of only four Black starters on USC's 1970 team that played Alabama. USC followed an unwritten quota limiting Black players to a half-dozen or so. There were only five Black players on the 1962 national title team and only seven on the 1967 national title team despite the diversity and population of Los Angeles.
Minnesota's Sandy Stephens of Uniontown, PA., was the first Black quarterback to win a national title in 1960. Michigan State's Jimmy Raye, recruited out of segregated Fayetteville, N.C., aboard Duffy Daugherty's Underground Railroad, was the South's first Black quarterback to win a national title in 1965 and 1966.

Jimmy Jones stood on the shoulders of Sandy Stephens, Jimmy Raye and other Black players in the 1960s.

Three Black Teenagers Changed the Face of College Football and Got Written Out of History – Tom Shanahan Report

Not challenging you, I figure you have quite a bit of documentation. But I have never heard of this quota system. I got to USC in 1972 and there were a lot more than 6 black players.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Both teams were still segregated rosters. That’s not America. Texas was the last all-White national champion.

One, I submit that’s exactly what America was at that point in time.

Two, arguing about which game is the actual “Game of the Century” is as pointless as arguing who is the most beautiful woman to ever live. It’s impossible to declare a winner.

Three, newbs owe a round of drinks. Welcome aboard. I hope you’ll stick around.

 

[shanny4055]

Not challenging you, I figure you have quite a bit of documentation. But I have never heard of this quota system. I got to USC in 1972 and there were a lot more than 6 black players.

Yes, by the late 1960s the quota system crumbled.

USC didn't have double-digit Black players until 1970. Of the 18 Black players on the 1970 roster, nine were junior college transfers and two were four-year school transfers. Since they were shedding their unwritten quota years, the only four starters in 1970 were junior QB Jimmy Jones, senior RB Clarence Davis, senior DL Charlie Weaver (a LB in NFL with Lions) and senior DL Tody Smith. Jones was a high school recruit, Davis and Weaver were in their second year as JC transfers, Smith was a four-year school transfer.

Sam Cunningham was a backup in his varsity debut as a sophomore. Charlie Evans, who played five years in the NFL, was a senior returning starter (and White). Although 1970 USC-Alabama myths focus on Cunningham as the star, three USC fullbacks scored touchdowns. Cunningham's made it 15-0. Alabama closed to 15-7 (it wasn't a one-sided rout start to finish as told in the myth). Just before halftime, Evans had the longest gains and a touchdown to make the score 22-7 at halftime. Another backup fullback scored the touchdown late in the game for the 42-21 final score.

Initially, the increased recruitment of Black players rubbed returning White players the wrong way, according to Charle Young, a Black sophomore TE in 1970.

Untold story of racial divide on 1970 and 1971 USC football rosters that played Alabama – Tom Shanahan Report

You never heard of the unwritten quota limitations because it was the unwritten and in general the 1960s sports media avoided race for fear of alienating subscribers and advertisers. It's similar to the unwritten rule in basketball in those days -- start two Black players at home but three on the road (very few televised games in those days). The main reason you never heard it is the Bear Bryant fairytales are entrenched through sloppy journalism blinded by Bryant's legend.

Thanks for keeping an open mind for the facts.

 

[shanny4055]

Yes, by the late 1960s the quota system crumbled.

USC didn't have double-digit Black players until 1970. Of the 18 Black players on the 1970 roster, nine were junior college transfers and two were four-year school transfers. Since they were shedding their unwritten quota years, the only four starters in 1970 were junior QB Jimmy Jones, senior RB Clarence Davis, senior DL Charlie Weaver (a LB in NFL with Lions) and senior DL Tody Smith. Jones was a high school recruit, Davis and Weaver were in their second year as JC transfers, Smith was a four-year school transfer.

Initially, the increased recruitment of Black players rubbed returning White players the wrong way, according to Charle Young, a Black sophomore TE in 1970.

Untold story of racial divide on 1970 and 1971 USC football rosters that played Alabama – Tom Shanahan Report

You never heard of the unwritten quota limitations because it was the unwritten and in general the 1960s sports media avoided race for fear of alienating subscribers and advertisers. It's similar to the unwritten rule in basketball in those days -- start two Black players at home but three on the road (very few televised games in those days). The main reason you never heard it is the Bear Bryant fairytales are entrenched through sloppy journalism blinded by Bryant's legend.

Thanks for keeping an open mind.
Consider buying my books for the full story.

 

[shanny4055]

One, I submit that’s exactly what America was at that point in time.

Two, arguing about which game is the actual “Game of the Century” is as pointless as arguing who is the most beautiful woman to ever live. It’s impossible to declare a winner.

Three, newbs owe a round of drinks. Welcome aboard. I hope you’ll stick around.

Oh, I never said there is only one Game of the Century. I said there are about a half-dozen iterations.
What I said is there are only two of consequence with a season-long building and the champion finishing with
an unbeaten record -- 1966 and 1971. There were no Black players in the 1946 Game of the Century.

 

[dixiehack]

It’s a little hard to have a discussion with an infomercial, but best of luck with your book. Writing one is a tremendous leap of faith and I have great respect for those who do it.

 

[ChrisLong]

So many things come out after the fact -- some true, some not. About 30 years ago, I got a call from a radio guy in Las Vegas who got my name and number from an NHL media directory. We started out talking about hockey. But when he found out I went to USC and when I went there, he asked me what I knew about the race riot inside the Notre Dame locker room after the epic 55-24 USC victory in 1974. I told him I had no idea what he was talking about. I was in that locker room and nobody was agitated, nobody was angry, they were all mostly subdued.

 

[BTExpress]

I'll never forget that day. Delivered newspapers in the rain. By evening had a temperature of 102. Vaguely remember the game on in the background as I drifted in and out of consciousness.

 

[HanSenSE]

Lest we forget, the 1951 USF Dons, who went 9-0 but turned down an invitation to the Orange Bowl after officials asked they leave their two Black players - Burl Toler and Ollie Matson - at home. The program later folded. Toler and Matson eventually made it to Canton, as did the team's PR guy, Pete Rozelle.

 

[maumann2]

The best college football team in Florida until desegregation was in Tallahassee, but it was Florida A&M. And to be brutally honest, most Grambling teams under Eddie Robinson would have soundly beaten the best of the SEC during the 1950s and 1960s, had it been given the opportunity.

Palm Beach County was still trying to solve the issue of "colored schools" as late as 1971. What a backwards country this is.