Some more DMN stuff

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Football_Bat said:
JRoyal said:
OK, here's the numbers I garnered from their Web site off their staff listings, though I have no idea how reliable they are:

79 sports positions
1 sports editor
1 assistant managing editor
2 deputy SEs
2 design editors (though I'm pretty sure one of them, Rob Schneider, was recently promoted to presentation director for the whole paper)
3 assigning editors
5 assistant editors
30 copy editors
1 agate editor
4 columnists
28 reporters
1 executive assistant
1 office manager

They may have more positions (part-timers, zone bureau guys, whatever), and I have no idea how up-to-date the contact information online is kept, but that's the best breakdown I can garner off their site. The listings for the bureaus seemed incomplete, with some just listing the bureau chief and others with several listings.
45 editors
34 writers + other help

No wonder DMN is circling the drain.

Too many chiefs and not enough Native Americans.

But let me guess which of the group gets cut.

Got news for you. Few, if any, of those 30 copy editors are chiefs. Trust me on this. I've been there. The vast majority of copy editors are ``the help,'' not the boss. And I'm guessing the agate editor is not a terribly powerful position, either.
 
joe king said:
Football_Bat said:
JRoyal said:
OK, here's the numbers I garnered from their Web site off their staff listings, though I have no idea how reliable they are:

79 sports positions
1 sports editor
1 assistant managing editor
2 deputy SEs
2 design editors (though I'm pretty sure one of them, Rob Schneider, was recently promoted to presentation director for the whole paper)
3 assigning editors
5 assistant editors
30 copy editors
1 agate editor
4 columnists
28 reporters
1 executive assistant
1 office manager

They may have more positions (part-timers, zone bureau guys, whatever), and I have no idea how up-to-date the contact information online is kept, but that's the best breakdown I can garner off their site. The listings for the bureaus seemed incomplete, with some just listing the bureau chief and others with several listings.
45 editors
34 writers + other help

No wonder DMN is circling the drain.

Too many chiefs and not enough Native Americans.

But let me guess which of the group gets cut.

Got news for you. Few, if any, of those 30 copy editors are chiefs. Trust me on this. I've been there. The vast majority of copy editors are ``the help,'' not the boss. And I'm guessing the agate editor is not a terribly powerful position, either.
Fair enough. But do you really need almost 1 copy editor for every writer?

Counterclockwise in the Northern Hemisphere ....
 
Football_Bat said:
joe king said:
Football_Bat said:
JRoyal said:
OK, here's the numbers I garnered from their Web site off their staff listings, though I have no idea how reliable they are:

79 sports positions
1 sports editor
1 assistant managing editor
2 deputy SEs
2 design editors (though I'm pretty sure one of them, Rob Schneider, was recently promoted to presentation director for the whole paper)
3 assigning editors
5 assistant editors
30 copy editors
1 agate editor
4 columnists
28 reporters
1 executive assistant
1 office manager

They may have more positions (part-timers, zone bureau guys, whatever), and I have no idea how up-to-date the contact information online is kept, but that's the best breakdown I can garner off their site. The listings for the bureaus seemed incomplete, with some just listing the bureau chief and others with several listings.
45 editors
34 writers + other help

No wonder DMN is circling the drain.

Too many chiefs and not enough Native Americans.

But let me guess which of the group gets cut.

Got news for you. Few, if any, of those 30 copy editors are chiefs. Trust me on this. I've been there. The vast majority of copy editors are ``the help,'' not the boss. And I'm guessing the agate editor is not a terribly powerful position, either.
Fair enough. But do you really need almost 1 copy editor for every writer?

Counterclockwise in the Northern Hemisphere ....

No.

After all, the wire copy and photos all flow in by themselves with the proper specs, headline sizes and editing.

The pages all proofread themselves and send themselves.

The copy sends itself to the Web site with headline changes and the proper codes.

The city editors and line editors are always on top of every breaking story and change. They never miss anything; I've yet to change a word or ask a single question about any article, ever.

I've long sat in a chair, a thumb inserted in my rectum, for entire shifts while these things happened. My fellow CEs did the same.
 
Not with DyePack's flair, of course, but considering the volume and quality of work they were producting during the "golden age," 30 copy editors certainly isn't out of line.
 
Trust me, there were probably plenty of nights when they could have used a few more hands.
 
standman said:
Trust me, there were probably plenty of nights when they could have used a few more hands.

How can you say that? After all, I'm sure each of them was staffed day and night, seven days a week, and none of them ever took a sick day or used a vacation day.
 
DyePack said:
Football_Bat said:
Counterclockwise in the Northern Hemisphere ....

No.

After all, the wire copy and photos all flow in by themselves with the proper specs, headline sizes and editing.

You can't be serious. Have you seen some of AP's copy ... especially their cutlines. They can be brutal.
 
dooley_womack1 said:
Um, your sarcasm font reader is on the fritz.

20,000 posts and you wasted one on pointing that out. Thanks for ruining my fun.
 
Lots of capsules, quick hits, cutout photos, maybe a few columns or features to anchor the package, and generally a lot of flash-flash and bling-bling and little substance.
So it's going to look more like the Star-Telegram?
 
Plain Old Sportsed said:
dooley_womack1 said:
Um, your sarcasm font reader is on the fritz.

20,000 posts and you wasted one on pointing that out. Thanks for ruining my fun.

My apologies. And why do you have Chester Tate in your sidesaddle?

And annoyed, did the S-T kill your parents or something?
 
My second line was a one-off putdown. My first line was a serious question. I love Soap, and I was wondering the story behind sportsed having Chester Tate in the sidesaddle.
 
dooley_womack1 said:
My second line was a one-off putdown. My first line was a serious question. I love Soap, and I was wondering the story behind sportsed having Chester Tate in the sidesaddle.

Ah, you got to look at DyePack's side saddle and put 2&2 together ... I'm not going to give it to you that easy. :)
 
I've noticed some digs in here about the Star-Telegram. I can promise you that if and when DMN staffers get sent packing, they will be begging for a job at the S-T. Anyone who's in their right mind and who ever has lost a job because of cutbacks or, God forbid, a paper closing, knows better than to knock other papers when the going is good for them. Trust me: everyone is vulnerable when it comes to cuts. Be happy with what you have and quit taking digs at other papers. If there's a paycheck there and benefits, it's a good job. On top of that, the S-T is a good paper with a circulation in the 200,000 range---what's to complain about that?
 
annoyed said:
Lots of capsules, quick hits, cutout photos, maybe a few columns or features to anchor the package, and generally a lot of flash-flash and bling-bling and little substance.
So it's going to look more like the Star-Telegram?

It's going to look like a hell of a lot of papers, the way things are going.
 
Really, that is the way papers are going. And it's because that's what a lot of readers want, or at least it's what they tell us they want. Most readers nowadays prefer a pretty good amount of quick reads with a few long pieces thrown in. It's the way of the future.

Does it mean you can't tell a good story unless you can do it in 15" or less? No. It just means we have to find ways to package things that shows readers this story, which might seem long, is worth their time. Sometimes a byline or columnist's sig is enough to do that. Sometimes it has to be something else.

But the days that we could write a 40" story and think people will read it just because it's there are gone. Sure, it happens for some sports in some places, but for the most part it's over. Think about it; Some of the most popular sections of magazines are the little shorts in the front. People can read them and go. They save the longer stories for when they have time. The same is true of newspapers. Like it or not, people have shorter attention spans, and this isn't about just vying with other media for people's attention; it's about vying with everything else for people's time.

That doesn't mean what the DMN is doing is right. In the end, it's about money, not about finding a way to make a more reader-friendly product. But those who ridicule papers that package more breakouts and quick hits need to think about what it is the reader wants. And time and again, they've told us that's what they want.
 
JRoyal said:
Really, that is the way papers are going. And it's because that's what a lot of readers want, or at least it's what they tell us they want. Most readers nowadays prefer a pretty good amount of quick reads with a few long pieces thrown in. It's the way of the future.

Does it mean you can't tell a good story unless you can do it in 15" or less? No. It just means we have to find ways to package things that shows readers this story, which might seem long, is worth their time. Sometimes a byline or columnist's sig is enough to do that. Sometimes it has to be something else.

But the days that we could write a 40" story and think people will read it just because it's there are gone. Sure, it happens for some sports in some places, but for the most part it's over. Think about it; Some of the most popular sections of magazines are the little shorts in the front. People can read them and go. They save the longer stories for when they have time. The same is true of newspapers. Like it or not, people have shorter attention spans, and this isn't about just vying with other media for people's attention; it's about vying with everything else for people's time.

That doesn't mean what the DMN is doing is right. In the end, it's about money, not about finding a way to make a more reader-friendly product. But those who ridicule papers that package more breakouts and quick hits need to think about what it is the reader wants. And time and again, they've told us that's what they want.

So does this mean that USA Today was extraordinarily visionary when it came on the scene with its quick hits and one-jump covers? Or did it serve as the trigger for the way it is now?

And, back to the DMN front specifically, the unsubstantiated rumor on the street is the hammer is falling today in the newsroom. Anyone hearing anything?
 
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