Soft/Baseball Scoring Question

[sportshack06]

had a prep game tonight... I've already sent my story in on deadline, but I've been trying to look this up to no avail for the past hour.

Never seen this situation where the starting pitcher gets the save, but wanted to make sure I've credited things correctly for future reference, since this wasnt the typical situation you see in any normal baseball game.

Home Team has a 1-0 lead in the third. Home Team's pitcher gets into trouble in the third, issues a one-out bases loaded walk to tie the game at 1.

Home team swaps the SS and the P and the new pitcher strikes out the final two hitters of the inning and the score is tied at 1. Home team scored a run in the bottom half of the inning, to take a 2-1 lead... and to start the fourth inning, the home team swaps the SS and P back to their original positions.

I credited the relief pitcher with the Win, since she came into a tie game and the team regained the lead with her in the circle and credited the starting pitcher with the Save, since she entered a one-run game and pitched the final four frames (despite throwing 6 and 1/3 overall).

 

[spnited]

Nope. Pitcher who starts a game can not get a save. Starter gets the win. The SS/P did not pitch long enough to earn the win.
If starter goes less than required innings for a win (4 in a 7 inning game), scorer has the judgment to credit the win to the most effective relief pitcher.
Starter who went 6 1/3 earned it in this case.

 

[Tom Petty]

Told ya I sucked at these scoring decisions.

babe ruth was moved to RF, not SS.

 

[sportshack06]

Told ya I sucked at these scoring decisions.

Make that two of us...

I knew a starter can't get the save (or a winning pitcher can't save his own win), but I've only seen the Braves last year during opening week swap position player for pitcher and then back again in the last 20 years (and that was a blowout game that had nothing to do with the pitchers of record).

Also, I guess I wasnt clearly considering the original starter to be a reliever.

Thanks for the help buck and spnited...

 

[buckweaver]

but I've only seen the Braves last year during opening week swap position player for pitcher and then back again in the last 20 years (and that was a blowout game that had nothing to do with the pitchers of record).

Well, technically, the Braves didn't switch a position player and a pitcher and back again. They put in a new pitcher, moved Resop to LF for one batter, then replaced the pitcher with Gregor Blanco and put Resop back on the mound. That's not terribly unusual; it happens every couple of years.

The last time a team did a switch-and-back like that -- although it should come with an asterisk because it was two pitchers anyway -- was when the Mets had Orosco and McDowell alternating between P and RF for three innings in July 1986.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CIN/CIN198607220.shtml

 

[deskslave]

Nope. Pitcher who starts a game can not get a save. Starter gets the win. The SS/P did not pitch long enough to earn the win.
If starter goes less than required innings for a win (4 in a 7 inning game), scorer has the judgment to credit the win to the most effective relief pitcher.
Starter who went 6 1/3 earned it in this case.

But that would only be the case if the starter failed to go 4 innings, departed as the winning pitcher of record and stayed that way.

Because the home team took the lead while the reliever was the pitcher, she therefore is the pitcher of record and gets the win, even though she only pitched 2/3 of an inning.

 

[bueller]

I can't find anything that disqualifies the starting pitcher from getting one, as long as they don't get the win and they finish the game. Hack, I think you got it right.

MLB 10.19 -- http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2008/official_rules/10_the_official_scorer.pdf
NCAA baseball 10.26 (page 127) -- http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/Baseball_Rules_Bookd3de81d6-3cc9-4da4-a3ac-8ec821d37c91.pdf
NCAA softball 14.29.8 (page 237) -- http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/Softball_Rules_Bookb4c2d7bc-06ba-4862-8bc6-df8d900bab6b.pdf

Can't find the high school rulebooks online.

 

[Mark2010]

Nope. Pitcher who starts a game can not get a save. Starter gets the win. The SS/P did not pitch long enough to earn the win.
If starter goes less than required innings for a win (4 in a 7 inning game), scorer has the judgment to credit the win to the most effective relief pitcher.
Starter who went 6 1/3 earned it in this case.

I'm going with this one. If someone pitches 6 1/3 out of 7 innings --- including the first batter and the last batter --- they should get the win and there would be no save.

 

[Hank_Scorpio]

Nope. Pitcher who starts a game can not get a save. Starter gets the win. The SS/P did not pitch long enough to earn the win.
If starter goes less than required innings for a win (4 in a 7 inning game), scorer has the judgment to credit the win to the most effective relief pitcher.
Starter who went 6 1/3 earned it in this case.

But that would only be the case if the starter failed to go 4 innings, departed as the winning pitcher of record and stayed that way.

Because the home team took the lead while the reliever was the pitcher, she therefore is the pitcher of record and gets the win, even though she only pitched 2/3 of an inning.

I'd have to agree with you, desk.

Pitcher on the mound when the eventual winning run scored gets the win.

 

[Walter_Sobchak]

Really basic one in the office tonight.

Guy on second, batter hits a blooper into shallow left. Runner is halfway to see if ball is caught, gets thrown out at third. Single or fielder's choice? I was pretty sure it was a 7-5 FC, but I was voted down.

 

[Rhody31]

Reliever gets the win.
Second reliever - who happened to be the starter - gets the save.
The pitcher isn't re-entering as the starter; they are entering as a new pitcher. The rule is to prevent a starting pitcher winning 1-0 and getting a win and save.

 

[Rhody31]

Really basic one in the office tonight.

Guy on second, batter hits a blooper into shallow left. Runner is halfway to see if ball is caught, gets thrown out at third. Single or fielder's choice? I was pretty sure it was a 7-5 FC, but I was voted down.

Forced out?
If it's a force out, it's a FC. If there was no runner on first, it's a single

 

[Walter_Sobchak]

Really basic one in the office tonight.

Guy on second, batter hits a blooper into shallow left. Runner is halfway to see if ball is caught, gets thrown out at third. Single or fielder's choice? I was pretty sure it was a 7-5 FC, but I was voted down.

Forced out?
If it's a force out, it's a FC. If there was no runner on first, it's a single

No, not forced out. Kid shouldn't have taken off for third. Guess I was wrong.

 

[mike311gd]

Nope. Pitcher who starts a game can not get a save. Starter gets the win. The SS/P did not pitch long enough to earn the win.
If starter goes less than required innings for a win (4 in a 7 inning game), scorer has the judgment to credit the win to the most effective relief pitcher.
Starter who went 6 1/3 earned it in this case.

But that would only be the case if the starter failed to go 4 innings, departed as the winning pitcher of record and stayed that way.

Because the home team took the lead while the reliever was the pitcher, she therefore is the pitcher of record and gets the win, even though she only pitched 2/3 of an inning.

I'd have to agree with you, desk.

Pitcher on the mound when the eventual winning run scored gets the win.

I'm in the same camp. You can't save your own win, but I'm quite sure the relievers is the pitcher of record.

 

[mike311gd]

Really basic one in the office tonight.

Guy on second, batter hits a blooper into shallow left. Runner is halfway to see if ball is caught, gets thrown out at third. Single or fielder's choice? I was pretty sure it was a 7-5 FC, but I was voted down.

It's a single and a 7-5 putout.

 

[JakeandElwood]

Really basic one in the office tonight.

Guy on second, batter hits a blooper into shallow left. Runner is halfway to see if ball is caught, gets thrown out at third. Single or fielder's choice? I was pretty sure it was a 7-5 FC, but I was voted down.

It's a single and a 7-5 putout.

That's how I would score it too.

 

[mike311gd]

Really basic one in the office tonight.

Guy on second, batter hits a blooper into shallow left. Runner is halfway to see if ball is caught, gets thrown out at third. Single or fielder's choice? I was pretty sure it was a 7-5 FC, but I was voted down.

It's a single and a 7-5 putout.

That's how I would score it too.

If there's no force, any movement you make on the bases is at your own risk. If the batted ball goes to the outfield, it's a hit -- unless the batter is thrown out before he/she hits first.

 

[Mighty_Wingman]

OK, here's one:

Runner on second, no outs. Hitter hits a fly ball to pretty deep center field. Runner tags, and the center fielder, who caught the ball moving away from the infield, takes his time getting the ball in. Runner scores from second.

Do you give the hitter a sacrifice fly?

 

[spnited]

Yes

 

[laretrac]

Three scoring questions here -- in reverse order:
*On the sacrifice fly question -- yes, the batter gets an SF. A fly ball put in a position that, when caught, would score a man from second ball (and does) results in a sacrifice fly. If such a ball is catchable and dropped and, in the opinion of the scorer, the man would have scored all the way from the second anyway, the batter reaches on the error and is credited with an SF.
*On the question of the man at second being thrown out at third on what normally looks like a hit to the outfield -- the batter reaches on a fielder's choice, not a hit. When the ball hits, it cannot be assumed that even an outfielder has no play at first. How many times have you seen a man thrown out at first, or a runner forced at second, on a ball hit cleanly to right field? No, a ball that lands in the outfield is not automatically anything. In this case, the outfielder saw that he had a play at third and he chose that play. It's no different than the batter hitting the ball in the hole at shortstop -- and there is no apparent play at first -- but the shortstop backhands and nails the runner trying to advance from second to third. Fielders choice for the batter.
*On the question of the pitcher who re-enters the game and finishes the game -- I'm going to interpret from the professional rules only here. We have the SP, R1 and R2, who is the SP who has re-entered the game. R1 gets the victory, no question. And there is nothing in the rulebook which prevents R2 from getting the save, even though he started the game. The only restriction of that manner is the part of the rule that says the same player may not get both the victory and the save.
Hope that helps.