Slow pitch rules question

[Gomer]

Bases loaded, nobody out.

Batter hits to RF, fielder dives but misses the ball. Chaos ensues.

All runners advance a bag but the batter runs all the way to second. He and another girl are standing on second.

Defence touches the base and claims there are two outs on the play. One for two runners on the base and another because the batter who went to second has now decided to retreat to first.

Huh?

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

Second base belongs to the lead runner. Tag the dude out, that's it. If no one is tagged, no one is out. So if they touch the base thinking that's a force out, the dude has the right to go back to first. It's up to the defense to tag him out before he gets back.

 

[Gomer]

**** I knew it. They didn't tag anyone.

Our team tried to argue that point but the other team was convinced they were right. It was starting to get heated so I decided it was Division E co-ed slow pitch, let them have the outs. It likely cost us the game.

By the way, does that mean that if I get to third but nobody's behind me, I could hypothetically run back to second and stay there if I so choose? I know it happens when you have to tag up all the time, but had never encountered it in this regard.

Thanks for the help. I knew I could get a quick answer from someone here!

 

[Hank_Scorpio]

So the umpire took the other team's word as gospel?

 

[Gomer]

No umpire. Div. E, as in exceptionally drunk half the time.

 

[Gomer]

With neither team backing down it was going to get ugly quick. In retrospect I should have pulled out my iPhone and googled the rule, we would have had an answer within a minute.

 

[Gomer]

Geez, another rules question. I was certain I was right on this one but the rules seem to disagree with me.

Situation: Runner beats the throw to first, runs past the base, but turns two steps into fair territory as he walks casually back to the bag.

The first baseman sees this and tags him, claiming he's out. Umpire (remember, umpires in this league are players from the hitting team) says he's safe, claiming the rule is subjective and what matters is the runner's intent, in this case his intent was not to round the bag but to walk back to first.

I end up getting involved and agree with the fielders, much to the dismay of the umpire, my teammate.

Who was right?

MLB rules state: 7.08: Any runner is out when - (a) (2) after touching first base, he leaves the baseline, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base; and (j) He fails to return at once to first base after overrunning or oversliding that base. If he attempts to run to second he is out when tagged. If, after overrunning or oversliding first base he starts toward the dugout, or toward his position, and fails to return to first base at once, he is out, on appeal, when he or the base is tagged;

SPN (slow pitch) rules state: Sec. 8 A BASERUNNER MAY BE PUT OUT IF: B. After reaching first base, the batter-baserunner’s momentum causes him to overrun or overslide first base, the batter-baserunner then makes an attempt to start toward second base, before returning to retouch first base.
Sec. 12 BASERUNNERS ARE NOT OUT: A. When a batter-baserunner overruns or overslides first base and immediately returns to that base.

I was always taught you veer to the right after first because if you veer to the left, even a step, you're in fair territory and can be tagged out. But if it's the umpire's discretion, then in this case the umpire called him safe.

 

[Gomer]

Nevermind, answered my own question. I'm wrong:

http://www.qcbaseball.com/baseball_rules/base_runner_rules1.aspx

There is one common misconception about overrunning first base. Some people want to argue that a player has to turn to the right (foul territory) after crossing first base in order to safely return to the base without the chance of being tagged out. This is incorrect as there is nothing in the rules that state which direction the player must turn. The rule states that the runner cannot be tagged out after overrunning first base as long as he/she immediately returns to the base.

Of course there is an exception to this rule, in that the runner can make no attempt to go to second base or he can be tagged out. This comes down to the judgment of the umpire and not whether the player turned into foul territory or not after crossing first base.

 

[Flying Headbutt]

You may want to brush up on your rules before the next game already. Indeed, as long as there's no hint of a move toward second base the runner is fine. Simply turning in that direction is meaningless.

 

[KJIM]

It likely cost us the game.

And you your scholarship.

:)

 

[bydesign77]

Answers:

There is no rule for an out just because there are two people on the bag. Rule says that two players can't occupy the same base. The base belongs to the runner that last legally occupied the base. In this case, that is the lead runner. Tag the batter-runner and he's out.

If you advance to third legally, you cannot retreat to second. Meaning you can't just go back. Now, if you're at third (or past it, like trying to score) cause you took off on a fly ball and it's caught, yes you can retreat to second, but you must tag third REGARDLESS if you touched it originally on the way back to second.

Third, overrunning first, the intent is the key to the batter-runner being put out on a tag. He has to attempt to advance to second to lose protection. Common sense says turn right to avoid anyone thinking you're trying to advance. But turning left in of itself does not remove protection.

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

If you advance to third legally, you cannot retreat to second. Meaning you can't just go back. Now, if you're at third (or past it, like trying to score) cause you took off on a fly ball and it's caught, yes you can retreat to second, but you must tag third REGARDLESS if you touched it originally on the way back to second.

You can go back to the previous base if you're Manny Ramirez:

http://books.google.com/books?id=6S4DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=manny+steal+first+base&source=bl&ots=W4eTZUhPzK&sig=Z3LfQ5Upvz1iHlBcxawd8uJAtTQ&hl=en&ei=l2NITaHTJ8XEgQeT4PiWBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDQQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=manny%20steal%20first%20base&f=false

This article also describes why a rule was instituted in 1920 to make it illegal to go back to the base you came from once you made it safely to the next base if you are trying to trick the defense or make a travesty of the game.