one more psu thread: THE TRANSFERRING ISSUE

[Starman]

Too bad.

The last thing the Big Ten wants is 3-4 more weeks of incessant everyday regurgitation of the whole thing (a lot of it will be unavoidable and will happen anyway but it will be way worse if PSU is in a bowl game).

Plus it has to be considered a non-zero possibility additional knowledge or complicity on the part of the current staff could come to light, which would be an even worse disaster. What if they accept a bid to a BCS game on Jan. 1 and it comes out on Dec. 18 that certain members of the staff knew all along, knew for years, and fully enabled Sandusky's activities?

The Big Ten can't allow that to happen.

 

[KJIM]

. if your child is a student there, is it worth the trouble?

Well, if your child is a student there, he or she is over 18 and therefore legally an adult. He or she should be the one to make the decision, not the parents. It's the student's life.

That said, a degree is a degree. The negative PR impact understandably makes some ashamed, but it's still checking the "yes" box on the application question that says "do you have a four-year college degree?"

 

[YankeeFan]

I think it just sucks that the players and other student fans of the football program would get "punished" for something that is not their fault.

I'm sorry, but this is the weakest of all the arguments that have been made, and it's been made by a lot of folks all week.

People suffer consequences for the actions of others all the time. It happens in team sports more often than in any other setting.

The star QB is suspended for breaking a rule, or not making his grades. The whole team suffers.

Part of the commitment you make when you join a team is to do your part, to make sure the team does not suffer due to your actions (or inaction).

Paterno & McQueary made that commitment, and they failed. If their team gets punished as a result, well, that's what happens.

And, really, it's so much more than that.

It was the culture of the entire football program that created this problem. Even the current players have, and will, benefit from this culture.

They're adored by fans. They get laid more than the chess team captain. They'll have better job opportunities.

They likely have had better housing, better meals, better weight room, etc. than the average student.

The whole system has to change.

To not begin implementing those changes, because some kids won't get to play a couple of football games is ridiculous. How do you drive home the idea that child rape is more important than football, when the concern is for the football players and their precious games?

 

[Lieslntx]

Too bad.

Too bad for who? The innocent players and students attending the university?

 

[YankeeFan]

Well, if your child is a student there, he or she is over 18 and therefore legally an adult. He or she should be the one to make the decision, not the parents. It's the student's life.

Kind of depends on who's paying the bills, doesn't it?

As BB King would say, "I'm paying the cost, to be the boss."

And, I would still expect the parents to have a lot of influence on an 18-year-old's decisions.

Hell, I'm 42. I'm thankful to still have my dad around to provide good advice.

 

[Lieslntx]

I think it just sucks that the players and other student fans of the football program would get "punished" for something that is not their fault.

I'm sorry, but this is the weakest of all the arguments that have been made, and it's been made by a lot of folks all week.

People suffer consequences for the actions of others all the time. It happens in team sports more often than in any other setting.

The star QB is suspended for breaking a rule, or not making his grades. The whole team suffers.

Part of the commitment you make when you join a team is to do your part, to make sure the team does not suffer due to your actions (or inaction).

Paterno & McQueary made that commitment, and they failed. If their team gets punished as a result, well, that's what happens.

And, really, it's so much more than that.

It was the culture of the entire football program that created this problem. Even the current players have, and will, benefit from this culture.

They're adored by fans. They get laid more than the chess team captain. They'll have better job opportunities.

They likely have had better housing, better meals, better weight room, etc. than the average student.

The whole system has to change.

To not begin implementing those changes, because some kids won't get to play a couple of football games is ridiculous. How do you drive home the idea that child rape is more important than football, when the concern is for the football players and their precious games?

Say what you want, but I disagree with punishing the entire school for something that not everyone participated in. It may be "just a game" but I still do not see it as fair to those uninvolved.

 

[Starman]

Too bad.

Too bad for who? The innocent players and students attending the university?

Yep.

It remains to be seen how innocent the remaining members of the coaching staff are.


Nobody I have seen so far has suggested that current players are involved in any way.

Most of the coaching staff has been there for decades.

It is POSSIBLE they knew nothing, never suspected a thing, were totally blindsided by the whole thing. Possible, but that's all.

 

[YankeeFan]

Too bad.

Too bad for who? The innocent players and students attending the university?

Yes. To ****ing bad for them.

Hell, didn't anyone here ever lay team sports?

One player ****s up, the whole team runs laps.

Well, this team ****ed up bad. Running a few laps won't solve this problem.

This program was out of ****ing control, and meanwhile, they were lauded as the cleanest program in the country.

It was a sham. A house of cards.

Putting football ahead of all else is exactly what created this problem. To continue to put football ahead of all else does not begin the healing, no matter how many candles they light.

 

[Lieslntx]

For some of these kids, this is their chance to go on to a bigger career in the NFL. For the others not talented enough for that, it is their chance to participate in one of the biggest sporting events they are likely to ever have in their lives. And as And if you will recall my earliest post, I think it sucks that they have to be the collateral damage.

 

[hondo]

More short-term: people have asked if Penn State should decline a bowl invitation, or will bowls not invite them.

That might not be possible. To the best of my knowledge, any team in a BCS conference cannot decline a bowl invitation. They're contractually obligated to play if eligible, and invited as a part of the conference bowl selection process. If Penn State doesn't win the Big Ten, the next four in order are Cap One, Outback, Insight, Gator. Cap One and Outback are subject to a two-loss rule (If Penn State finishes 9-3, they can't pass them for a 7-5 team). Also, Big Ten championship game loser can't fall below the Gator.

Wonder which city (Orlando, Tampa, Jax) will hold their nose and take Penn State. One of the might have to.

If they win the BTCG, they will be locked into the Rose Bowl.

I think the Big Ten will "allow" (i.e. order) them to refuse any other invitations.

Agree on the first point. To refuse a bowl, the Big Ten and the bowl partners would have to be involved, I would think. Some bowls might not want the week of negative national publicity. But if you're the Little Cesars or Ticket City bowl (which have Big-10 tie-ins), you might not care.

 

[YankeeFan]

Say what you want, but I disagree with punishing the entire school for something that not everyone participated in. It may be "just a game" but I still do not see it as fair to those uninvolved.

I know you disagree. Of course you do. You're thinking about the poor football players.

If you only look at it from their point of view, that's the decision you will reach.

And, you'll further enable the very thing that created the problem in the first place.

It's not fair to them, but it is only a football game.

 

[Starman]

It does suck.

No NFL team decides whether or not to draft someone on the basis of one bowl game. That's the same argument as "you're costing my kid a scholarship."

And if they don't get to participate "in one of the biggest sporting events they are likely to ever have in their lives," well ... tough ****.

They need to go complain to Sandusky, Paterno and everybody involved in the coverup.

 

[Lieslntx]

Say what you want, but I disagree with punishing the entire school for something that not everyone participated in. It may be "just a game" but I still do not see it as fair to those uninvolved.

I know you disagree. Of course you do. You're thinking about the poor football players.

If you only look at it from their point of view, that's the decision you will reach.

And, you'll further enable the very thing that created the problem in the first place.

It's not fair to them, but it is only a football game.

To the players playing the game, I do not see it as just a football game.

And don't tell me that I am only looking at it from their point of view. Nor am I only thinking about the poor football players. I am responding to one aspect of the collateral damage that is involved, pertinent to topic of this thread.

 

[YankeeFan]

Hell, didn't anyone here ever lay team sports?

Unfortunate typo of the decade.

Seriously, if the focus is really on the victims and not the football team, "punishing" the players means nothing. What they'd go through is nothing comparatively.

The goal isn't to punish the football players.

I don't know if they should play the games. I don't really give a ****.

All I'm saying is, "it's not the players fault," is not an intellectual argument.

Who the **** cares? It's not about them.

The goal has to be to change the culture in that program. If canceling the remaining games is what's necessary to do that, then the players are collateral damage.

You can't continue to put football first.

And, we still don't know how complicit this staff is.

The whole thing is ****ed up, but don't argue that the players feeling are what matters here. They don't.

 

[YankeeFan]

I think we just said the exact same thing. Whatever they do that has collateral damage to the players means nothing. IF it's truly about the victims now, which I'm not entirely convinced that it is.

Ah, sorry. I was still fired up & in a mood to argue.

Didn't realize you were saying something similar, i.e. punishment.

 

[Lieslntx]

Hell, didn't anyone here ever lay team sports?

Unfortunate typo of the decade.

Seriously, if the focus is really on the victims and not the football team, "punishing" the players means nothing. What they'd go through is nothing comparatively.

The goal isn't to punish the football players. But that is what will happen if games are cancelled.

I don't know if they should play the games. I don't really give a ****.

All I'm saying is, "it's not the players fault," is not an intellectual argument. I don't care if you or anyone thinks my argument is not "intellectual" enough. It is a fair argument to say that those not involved should not be punished more than they already are just by attending the school

Who the **** cares? It's not about them. But it becomes about the players if they are punished for it.

The goal has to be to change the culture in that program. If canceling the remaining games is what's necessary to do that, then the players are collateral damage. Get rid of the people that ruined the culture. I don't believe that canceling games will change the culture.

You can't continue to put football first. I never asked for football to be put first

And, we still don't know how complicit this staff is. Then time should be spent finding out

The whole thing is ****ed up, but don't argue that the players feeling are what matters here. They don't. The feelings of players (and all of the students at the school) matter

I responded to you inside your quote, because it was easier for me to address your comments that way. I hope that is OK.

And before anyone wants to claim I am not sympathetic to the victims, keep that thought to yourself. I am addressing the issue of the students and the players, as is the topic of this thread.

 

[YankeeFan]

And before anyone wants to claim I am not sympathetic to the victims, keep that thought to yourself. I am addressing the issue of the students and the players, as is the topic of this thread.

I don't think you are unsympathetic to the victims.

And, I don't mean to criticize you or make it personal.

But, your answers tell me that you don't get it. Sorry.

 

[Lieslntx]

And before anyone wants to claim I am not sympathetic to the victims, keep that thought to yourself. I am addressing the issue of the students and the players, as is the topic of this thread.

I don't think you are unsympathetic to the victims.

And, I don't mean to criticize you or make it personal.

But, your answers tell me that you don't get it. Sorry.

And you would be very, very wrong in making such an assumption. Very wrong.

 

[Starman]

Frankly, whether Penn State goes to a bowl game or not probably doesn't matter too much to the victims. It won't change or undo or fix what was done to them.

But if PSU goes to a high-profile bowl game the whole thing will be just continually dragged across the airwaves every day for three or four weeks (most likely revealing no information which will be helpful in the case). Plus a boatload of the sanctimonious "healing-through-football" crappola we saw last Saturday.

There will be a steady stream of stuff about the case coming out -- that won't change regardless of whether PSU goes to a bowl game or not.

Better for them to finish the regular season, decline the bowl invite, nuke the whole staff, then try to start over.

 

[dixiehack]

Teams can turn down bowl bids. Clemson and South Carolina both did so after their brawl in Granny Holtz's last game.