Obama Negatives

[Boom_70]

Unless there is some great surprise at the Republican convention I will be voting for Obama. That said I do
think it's fair to look at his negatives:

1. Civil Liberties. instead of ending Bush policies he has ramped them up
2. Failed to close Gitmo as promised
3. Has not come out in favor of gay marriage
4. Unemployment still at very high levels
5. Started class warfare unnecessarily
6. High gas prices
7. Higher taxes ( see 5)
8. Escalated war in Afghanistan
9. Obamacare
10 Alienated strongest ally in The Middle East - Israel
11. Failure to develop strong illegal immigrant plan

 

[Dick Whitman]

The problem is that 5, 7, and 9 are positives to many voters. Republican voters are not going to be energized by 1, 2, and 3. And 4 is debatable.

I'll give you 6, 8, and 10.

 

[Boom_70]

The problem is that 5, 7, and 9 are positives to many voters. Republican voters are not going to be energized by 1, 2, and 3. And 4 is debatable.

I'll give you 6, 8, and 10.

I added 11th on illegals .

I guess a lot will depend where the independents fall and how many Republicans crossover like
myself.

 

[Moderator1]

Why are you crossing over -- don't like the GOP offerings or think Obama needs/deserves more time?

And let's be careful with this one, folks. This is a chance to show we CAN discuss politics like reasonable adults. I'm going to be very disappointed if proven otherwise.

 

[Dick Whitman]

The problem is that 5, 7, and 9 are positives to many voters. Republican voters are not going to be energized by 1, 2, and 3. And 4 is debatable.

I'll give you 6, 8, and 10.

I added 11th on illegals .

I guess a lot will depend where the independents fall and how many Republicans crossover like
myself.

11 is interesting. Depends on the number of independents and Democrats lost vs. the number of Hispanic voters saved on this issue. I'm sure there's polling on that somewhere, at least internally.

 

[93Devil]

do not outweigh the positives.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Unless there is some great surprise at the Republican convention I will be voting for Obama. That said I do
think it's fair to look at his negatives:

1. Civil Liberties. instead of ending Bush policies he has ramped them up
2. Failed to close Gitmo as promised
3. Has not come out in favor of gay marriage
4. Unemployment still at very high levels
5. Started class warfare unnecessarily
6. High gas prices
7. Higher taxes ( see 5)
8. Escalated war in Afghanistan
9. Obamacare
10 Alienated strongest ally in The Middle East - Israel
11. Failure to develop strong illegal immigrant plan

1. Debatable, although the liberal in me wishes he wouldn't.
2. Yeah, not fulfilling this promise looks bad. Although if he closed it, then the GOP would be shrieking that we're letting the terrorists win. This could be something he does in the second term without worrying about the GOP.
3. Would be incredible if he had, and really gutsy if he did it right now. Otherwise, see No. 2.
4. Still bad, not as bad as it was compared to the end of Bush's term.
5. There's been class warfare since time began, and it ramped up in the early 80s under Reagan. Only difference is, Obama cheers for the Davids, not the Goliaths.
6. This can hurt him. But what's the alternative? The Drill Baby Drill party? All Obama has to do is say, "Spill, Baby, Spill."
7. My taxes are lower, as well as 98 percent of the country. And sorry, I'm not sympathetic to the richest 2 percent.
8. I've always thought this war was necessary, unlike the other adventure, so I'm not upset at the escalation.
9. It's better than the GOP policy of "Screw You if Your Sick".
10. Israel's pissed, but they'll come around. They need us.
11. Something both parties can be blamed for.

 

[Boom_70]

Why are you crossing over -- don't like the GOP offerings or think Obama needs/deserves more time?

And let's be careful with this one, folks. This is a chance to show we CAN discuss politics like reasonable adults. I'm going to be very disappointed if proven otherwise.

I don't like GOP current and likely offerings.

 

[Starman]

Unless there is some great surprise at the Republican convention I will be voting for Obama. That said I do think it's fair to look at his negatives:

Glad to see you are beginning to question your blind unconditional support of Obama. : : :

1. Civil Liberties. instead of ending Bush policies he has ramped them up

He has been a disappointment in this regard but there is little doubt Romney or any Repub would be much much much worse.

2. Failed to close Gitmo as promised

He has been a disappointment in this regard but there is little doubt Romney or any Repub would be much much much worse.

3. Has not come out in favor of gay marriage

He has been a disappointment in this regard but there is little doubt Romney or any Repub would be much much much worse. Being not gay myself personally I don't care. Frankly I'd like to see a public debate over governmental support (i.e., tax benefits) for marriage of ANY type.

4. Unemployment still at very high levels

He has been a disappointment in this regard but there is little doubt Romney or any Repub would be much much much worse. The GOP has no ******* plan whatsoever to do any ******* thing whatsoever about unemployment except to give billionaires and corporations lots more of MY TAX MONEY and hope against hope they might start hiring. Of course in real life they will pocket the money and outsource more jobs to Bangladesh.

5. Started class warfare unnecessarily

Class warfare is a real good thing. We need LOTS MORE OF IT and my side needs to start winning some battles.

6. High gas prices

The GOP is the party of Wall Street speculators and Big Oil. Gas prices are 100.0000000 PERCENT THEIR FAULT. The Dems need to flog the GOP around the head and neck 24/7 with this meme.

7. Higher taxes ( see 5)

Taxes are at historically low levels. Only IQ-deficient Faux Fascist Noise-deluded teabaggers believe otherwise,

8. Escalated war in Afghanistan

He has been a disappointment in this regard but there is little doubt Romney or any Repub would be much much much worse. McCain was quoted as saying the U.S. would be there 100 years from now and he was fine with that.

9. Obamacare

The shortcomings in Obamacare are almost all the results of Obama's preemptive punting to lunatic conservatives (i.e. giving up on public option even before the start of debate). Otherwise it's awesome.

10 Alienated strongest ally in The Middle East - Israel

Who gives a ****. Israel needs to remember who is the "big brother" in that relationship.

11. Failure to develop strong illegal immigrant plan

I don't give a ****. I don't consider immigration a major problem.

 

[king cranium maximus IV]

Gas prices were only low when Obama took office because of the economic meltdown. I'd rather not recreate those conditions, thanks.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

I would deny that Israel is an ally of the U.S. Ally implies a two-way street. Israel actually dictates U.S. policy through its political influence here. If Obama could end that, he'd deserve four terms.
I agree with civil liberties. "Starting class warfare" is absurd. It wasn't Obama who's responsible for the amazing income inequality growth in this country since 1980. "Fighting back weakly" would be more accurate. I also think there is a chance, a small one, that Obama will come out in support of gay marriage before November, so let's hold that in abeyance. Same with Obamacare. Too soon to tell if it achieves its desired goals or not.
I said this somewhere else, Boom. To me, all of Obama's disappointments/failures stem from one primal flaw. He did not realize when he took office that things were as bad as they were, especially with the economy, but also in terms of polarization in Washington, influence of Wall Street, etc. And it took him the devil of a long time and a good electoral beating to disabuse him of his misplaced optimism.
It's a mixed record. But there are achievements as well as the problems that drive many Democrats around the bend.

 

[franklin lincoln]

Unless there is some great surprise at the Republican convention I will be voting for Obama. That said I do
think it's fair to look at his negatives:

1. Civil Liberties. instead of ending Bush policies he has ramped them up
2. Failed to close Gitmo as promised
3. Has not come out in favor of gay marriage
4. Unemployment still at very high levels
5. Started class warfare unnecessarily
6. High gas prices
7. Higher taxes ( see 5)
8. Escalated war in Afghanistan
9. Obamacare
10 Alienated strongest ally in The Middle East - Israel
11. Failure to develop strong illegal immigrant plan

I'll take a different angle.

<b>Positives</b>
1. Osama bin Laden.
2. Draw-down from Iraq.
3. Started a conversation about equalizing capital gains and earned income taxes.
4. Relatively large stimulus in 2009 and 2010.
5. We have so far avoided a double-dip recession.

<b>Negatives</b>
1. Unemployment is still above the projected levels.
2. The Affordable Care Act's failure to control overall system costs.
3. Essentially a failure of the Afghanistan surge to do anything besides keep a status quo.
4. Inability to get companies to spend the money they have on hand, in large part because of the lack of an investment tax credit as part of the stimulus.
5. Significantly increasing the debt in the 2011 and 2012 fiscal years, putting us in a worse position if the economy double-dips.
6. There's other stuff in here that I care deeply about that isn't worth getting into on this thread. But it's enough that I will vote for any of his challengers after voting for the President in 2008.

<b>Don't Care</b>
1. Gay Marriage
2. Gitmo
3. Israel policy (so far, anyway)
4. Gas prices (today's are not his fault; high gas prices in 2018 will be if he continues to block exploration, development and Keystone)
5. Illegal Immigration (Bush tried, and failed — I give him credit for that)

 

[king cranium maximus IV]

I also think some people mistake the Likud Party in Israel for actually Israel itself.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

I don't blame Obama completely for the gas prices, but when he comes out against the pipeline, I take issue with that...

I actually think Obama might be more effective when he doesn't have to worry about re-election, but I don't have a ton of confidence in him, but I don't have a ton of confidence in the other four either. I actually think Romney might be a pretty good president, but he's too inept on the campaign trail to get elected.

 

[da man]

12. Failed on his flat-out promise to cut the deficit in half during his term and to get spending "under control."

Here’s what Obama said at the meeting on Feb. 23, 2009:

"Today I'm pledging to cut the deficit we inherited by half by the end of my first term in office," Obama said. "Now, this will not be easy. It will require us to make difficult decisions and face challenges we've long neglected. But I refuse to leave our children with a debt that they cannot repay, and that means taking responsibility right now, in this administration, for getting our spending under control."

 

[Bubbler]

Unless there is some great surprise at the Republican convention I will be voting for Obama. That said I do
think it's fair to look at his negatives:

1. Civil Liberties. instead of ending Bush policies he has ramped them up
2. Failed to close Gitmo as promised
3. Has not come out in favor of gay marriage
4. Unemployment still at very high levels -- Neither party could do very much about this, especially when one of the parties is doing everything in its power to stop any kind of measures Obama has proposed. Blaming Obama for unemployment is simplistic.
5. Started class warfare unnecessarily -- This is just bull****.
6. High gas prices -- See No. 4, as well as all of your posts about speculation driving the market.
7. Higher taxes ( see 5) -- My taxes aren't higher.
8. Escalated war in Afghanistan (Though if he hadn't, and Afghanistan became a worse quagmire than it already is, you'd have righties harping on him for being soft on the Taliban. No-win situation.)
9. Obamacare -- Campaign promise he fulfilled and a policy that is supported by many who don't go into convulsions at the very thought that the status quo couldn't be changed.
10 Alienated strongest ally in The Middle East - Israel -- When that ally is hell-bent on pulling us into a war we don't necessarily want, I'd say he's done his job on this one. He's had to deal with Netanyahu, who isn't exactly a moderate.
11. Failure to develop strong illegal immigrant plan -- An issue that resonates with far fewer people than who actually give a **** about it.

But I'll add a few more ...

12. His environmental record is very questionable and his handling of the Gulf oil spill was/is a disgrace.
13. Refusal to stare down the lunatic Tea Partiers. I know Obama likes to "play long" on most issues, but sometimes playing long makes you look very weak in the moment.
14. Once in office, he has failed to strongly articulate the messages which got him elected and that are still attractive to most voters, thus ceding the court of public opinion to lunatic fringe GOPers who bastardize pretty much everything he stands for.

 

[RickStain]

9. It's better than the GOP policy of "Screw You if Your Sick".

It *is* the GOP policy. Nobody noticed because they were too busy wildly cheering the most conservative president since Reagan.

 

[Boom_70]

12. Failed on his flat-out promise to cut the deficit in half during his term and to get spending "under control."

Here’s what Obama said at the meeting on Feb. 23, 2009:

"Today I'm pledging to cut the deficit we inherited by half by the end of my first term in office," Obama said. "Now, this will not be easy. It will require us to make difficult decisions and face challenges we've long neglected. But I refuse to leave our children with a debt that they cannot repay, and that means taking responsibility right now, in this administration, for getting our spending under control."

Deficit is a good one. It's kind of traveled below the radar with all the other issues. It was a huge issue to some during The Bush years.

Long term it could be the biggest issue.

 

[franklin lincoln]

12. Failed on his flat-out promise to cut the deficit in half during his term and to get spending "under control."

Here’s what Obama said at the meeting on Feb. 23, 2009:

"Today I'm pledging to cut the deficit we inherited by half by the end of my first term in office," Obama said. "Now, this will not be easy. It will require us to make difficult decisions and face challenges we've long neglected. But I refuse to leave our children with a debt that they cannot repay, and that means taking responsibility right now, in this administration, for getting our spending under control."

Deficit is a good one. It's kind of traveled below the radar with all the other issues. It was a huge issue to some during The Bush years.

Long term it could be the biggest issue.

It will become a huge issue if we go into a double-dip recession, are forced to spend <b>even more</b> despite falling tax revenues. That will cause the bond market to start driving up our cost of borrowing.

 

[Azrael]

Not for nothing, because I haven't watched many of the debates, but have Republican candidates proposed or even articulated a single workable response to any of the things Boom lists here?