No Snickers in Gay Bars - another example of hysteria

[zeke12]

Black-balled: (v): What used to happen to Carmen Electra's chin.

 

[Mystery_Meat]

Black-balled: (v): What never happened to Michael Jackson's dates.

 

[JR]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Other times, not so much.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

alley --
You're cross-posting now. It's hard to get a bead.
You know as well as I do that "articulate" doesn't just mean "well-spoken" in our current context, at least not to many of the people to whom it has been addressed. In the case of language, the spirit of American apartheid has learned to be subtle -- outside of certain talk-shows, and meetings of certain GOP state committees, it's not polite to just yell, "Lazy n's!" any more. -- and to disguise itself. There's nobody here ever attempting to argue the notion that this wasn't at one time the case. Consequently, as a result of centuries of mischief, certain words in context carry more freight than Noah Webster provided them. Use "lascivious" in connection with black males, for example, you're not just summoning up Rick James, you're summoning up the historical basis for an awful lot of domestic terrorism, from 1690 onwards. The dispute over "articulate" is at the gentle end of that. It's unfortunate, but no less real.

 

[alleyallen]

alley --
You're cross-posting now. It's hard to get a bead.
You know as well as I do that "articulate" doesn't just mean "well-spoken" in our current context, at least not to many of the people to whom it has been addressed. In the case of language, the spirit of American apartheid has learned to be subtle -- outside of certain talk-shows, and meetings of certain GOP state committees, it's not polite to just yell, "Lazy n's!" any more. -- and to disguise itself. There's nobody here ever attempting to argue the notion that this wasn't at one time the case. Consequently, as a result of centuries of mischief, certain words in context carry more freight than Noah Webster provided them. Use "lascivious" in connection with black males, for example, you're not just summoning up Rick James, you're summoning up the historical basis for an awful lot of domestic terrorism, from 1690 onwards. The dispute over "articulate" is at the gentle end of that. It's unfortunate, but no less real.

Sorry, but the first thought that comes to my mind when I say articulate is that the person is well-spoken. Plain and simple, nothing more. Do some use it as a euphamism? Sure, but I'm not going to be held responsible for them.

Lascivious is tied to domestic terrorism? Since when? I have never once used that term in reference to race or terrorism, nor have I ever heard it referred to that way.

 

[zeke12]

I'm fairly sure lascivious was tied to miscegenation laws.

I remember reading a story about the word being used to describe 2 Live Crew, and the implications thereof.

 

[Double J]

As a kid, I grew up in a government housing project and a trailer park. Almost no black people in the project and zero in the trailer park. They were still ghettoes as far as I was (and am) concerned.

 

[alleyallen]

I'm fairly sure lascivious was tied to miscegenation laws.

I remember reading a story about the word being used to describe 2 Live Crew, and the implications thereof.

Never knew that, and I grew up in Texas. The dictionary version is the only definition I've known: wantonness, lust.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

If you use "lascivious" in connection with black males, you are summoning up the miscegenation hysteria at the low end, and the black-men-will-rape-our-white-women hysteria at the high end that was part and parcel of the philosophy by which black men were whipped, beaten, lynched and burned, in and out of slavery for 300 years. (Historian Margaret Coit, in her bio of JC Calhoun, called that fear "the deadweight on the conscience of every Southerner.") All of that - plus the Klan -- qualifies as "domestic terrorism" to me.
And, if you think the whole thing is Christmas Past, remember Bob Corker made considerable hay out of that same dynamic with the "Harold, call me!" ads in the Senate race this year.

 

[JR]

Sorry, but the first thought that comes to my mind when I say articulate is that the person is well-spoken. Plain and simple, nothing more.

Problem is, it's NOT plain and simple.

If you want to keep it that way, that's your right. But no one can deny the existence of another layer surrounding our language.

Because, as FB, Zeke & I have tried to demonstrate, that layer exists, and it forms part of how we communicate. Your refusal to accept it doesn't make it go away.

It's like saying Moby **** is a novel about a whale. Uh, yeah, kinda but there's a little more to it than that.

 

[Bruce_Shoebottom]

Back to Snickers.

Regardless of whether gays were being oversensitive, wasn't this just an ill-conceived commercial all around?

A certain segment of the gay and gay-friendly population was going to get offended.

A certain segment of the straight population was going to be grossed out by two guys kissing.

And from what I can tell, this hasn't even been the good type of controversy that gets more people interested in your product. The whole thing has just been a train wreck.

To whom exactly was this ad supposed to appeal?

 

[Johnny Dangerously]

I thought the commercial was saying if you try to meet someone halfway, you'll regret it. So, no compromise, no detente. Ban Snickers from the U.N.

 

[JR]

Since we're back to the original topic, anybody got a link to the actual ad?

(American Superbowl ads don't run up here)

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

I knew there was a reason I liked Milky Ways better.

 

[JR]

Mars Bars or Kit Kat, baby.

 

[buckweaver]

Usually, yes.

But I've heard it used across racial bounds.

I've seen white kids call poorer white kids "ghetto".

Can it be that -- like all other things American -- here, Ghetto is more about green than black or white?

And is it possible that, in calling other poor white kids "ghetto," the poor white kids in question are really calling them "black," and, therefore, establishing a higher place in the pecking order?

It is possible, yes. Is it realistic? Not usually.

When I was a broke college kid scrapping to get by on my own -- not that long ago, I might add -- I frequently used the term "ghetto," as did my friends, to describe our situations. My friends were black and Hispanic and white ... and we were all in similar situations. We were all ghetto. My friend's beat-up El Camino was ghetto. All the Top Ramen we ate was ghetto. The $0.99 menu at Jack-in-the-Crack was ghetto. The showerhead in our apartment that was only 68 inches high -- which you had to do the damn limbo under to rinse your hair -- was ghetto.

Ghetto, for us, was about green, not black and white.

 

[zeke12]

It wouldn't be the first word crushed by the American obsession with money, now would it?

 

[Mystery_Meat]

Is there anything the white of us are allowed to say about Barack Obama that won't be construed as racist? Hell yeah, he's articulate, and not just by the standards of the American public but the standards of politicians, who make their living because of the color of their tongue (silver) and not their skin. Jesse Jackson is a charismatic figure. Does that mean I'm propigating the stereotype of the black preacher as boisterous? Or implyling that black preachers with a voice are Pentecostal (paying attention to the other definition of charismatic)?

If he starts an 8 p.m. speech at 8 p.m., and someone makes note of it, are they indirectly reinforcing the concept of cp time?

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Is there anything the white of us are allowed to say about Barack Obama that won't be construed as racist? Hell yeah, he's articulate, and not just by the standards of the American public but the standards of politicians, who make their living because of the color of their tongue (silver) and not their skin. Jesse Jackson is a charismatic figure. Does that mean I'm propigating the stereotype of the black preacher as boisterous? Or implyling that black preachers with a voice are Pentecostal (paying attention to the other definition of charismatic)?

If he starts an 8 p.m. speech at 8 p.m., and someone makes note of it, are they indirectly reinforcing the concept of cp time?

Could be. Could not be.
Race is a minefield in this country. Karmic justice.

 

[estellathesillyrabbit]

Usually, yes.

But I've heard it used across racial bounds.

I've seen white kids call poorer white kids "ghetto".

Can it be that -- like all other things American -- here, Ghetto is more about green than black or white?

And is it possible that, in calling other poor white kids "ghetto," the poor white kids in question are really calling them "black," and, therefore, establishing a higher place in the pecking order?

It is possible, yes. Is it realistic? Not usually.

When I was a broke college kid scrapping to get by on my own -- not that long ago, I might add -- I frequently used the term "ghetto," as did my friends, to describe our situations. My friends were black and Hispanic and white ... and we were all in similar situations. We were all ghetto. My friend's beat-up El Camino was ghetto. All the Top Ramen we ate was ghetto. The $0.99 menu at Jack-in-the-Crack was ghetto. The showerhead in our apartment that was only 68 inches high -- which you had to do the damn limbo under to rinse your hair -- was ghetto.

Ghetto, for us, was about green, not black and white.

agreed. ghetto, nowadays, is used by the younger generations of all races to indicate that something is less than par. for example- i referred to the hilton at hobby airport as ghetto when they fed me sandwiches made with wonderbread and processed american cheese slices. compared to days inn, it was awesome, but when compared to the hilton in the galleria, it fell short. therefore, it was ghetto.