NL Cy: Peavy unanimous

[spnited]

As expected:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3112132

 

[Mayfly]

I took a look at that side bar with the pitchers who won the Triple Crown in pitching, something really stood out. The days of the dominant pitcher are over. No longer will a pitcher reach the 300K plateau. ERAs continue to climb, so there won't be anything like Gooden's 1.53, and no pitcher is going to win 27 games like Steve Carlton. Which is more impressive, Carlton's 27 wins with a 1.97 ERA and 310 Ks, or Gooden's 24 W, 1.53 ERA, and 268 Ks?

 

[buckweaver]

I took a look at that side bar with the pitchers who won the Triple Crown in pitching, something really stood out. The days of the dominant pitcher are over. No longer will a pitcher reach the 300K plateau. ERAs continue to climb, so there won't be anything like Gooden's 1.53, and no pitcher is going to win 27 games like Steve Carlton. Which is more impressive, Carlton's 27 wins with a 1.97 ERA and 310 Ks, or Gooden's 24 W, 1.53 ERA, and 268 Ks?

Did you never watch Randy Johnson pitch ... in this decade, even? He had 334 Ks in 2002.

Or Pedro Martinez, before him? Or Roger Clemens, with his 1.87 ERA two seasons ago? Or Greg Maddux, a decade ago, with 1.56?

 

[Mayfly]

I took a look at that side bar with the pitchers who won the Triple Crown in pitching, something really stood out. The days of the dominant pitcher are over. No longer will a pitcher reach the 300K plateau. ERAs continue to climb, so there won't be anything like Gooden's 1.53, and no pitcher is going to win 27 games like Steve Carlton. Which is more impressive, Carlton's 27 wins with a 1.97 ERA and 310 Ks, or Gooden's 24 W, 1.53 ERA, and 268 Ks?

Did you never watch Randy Johnson pitch ... in this decade, even? He had 334 Ks in 2002.

Or Pedro Martinez, before him? Or Roger Clemens, with his 1.87 ERA two seasons ago? Or Greg Maddux, a decade ago, with 1.56?

Yeah, I agree with the fact that Randy Johnson put up some great K numbers. My argument is that we will never see any of those great statistical seasons again by a pitcher. Roger had a great ERA two seasons ago, yes. The days of the K pitcher are gone, sluggers have raised ERAs, and no pitcher will get over 23 wins or so, if that.

 

[Chi City 81]

I took a look at that side bar with the pitchers who won the Triple Crown in pitching, something really stood out. The days of the dominant pitcher are over. No longer will a pitcher reach the 300K plateau. ERAs continue to climb, so there won't be anything like Gooden's 1.53, and no pitcher is going to win 27 games like Steve Carlton. Which is more impressive, Carlton's 27 wins with a 1.97 ERA and 310 Ks, or Gooden's 24 W, 1.53 ERA, and 268 Ks?

Did you never watch Randy Johnson pitch ... in this decade, even? He had 334 Ks in 2002.

Or Pedro Martinez, before him? Or Roger Clemens, with his 1.87 ERA two seasons ago? Or Greg Maddux, a decade ago, with 1.56?

Yeah, I agree with the fact that Randy Johnson put up some great K numbers. My argument is that we will never see any of those great statistical seasons again by a pitcher. Roger had a great ERA two seasons ago, yes. The days of the K pitcher are gone, sluggers have raised ERAs, and no pitcher will get over 22 wins or so, if that.

Spoken like someone with little knowledge of history. Baseball is a game of peaks and valleys.

 

[Mayfly]

I took a look at that side bar with the pitchers who won the Triple Crown in pitching, something really stood out. The days of the dominant pitcher are over. No longer will a pitcher reach the 300K plateau. ERAs continue to climb, so there won't be anything like Gooden's 1.53, and no pitcher is going to win 27 games like Steve Carlton. Which is more impressive, Carlton's 27 wins with a 1.97 ERA and 310 Ks, or Gooden's 24 W, 1.53 ERA, and 268 Ks?

Did you never watch Randy Johnson pitch ... in this decade, even? He had 334 Ks in 2002.

Or Pedro Martinez, before him? Or Roger Clemens, with his 1.87 ERA two seasons ago? Or Greg Maddux, a decade ago, with 1.56?

Yeah, I agree with the fact that Randy Johnson put up some great K numbers. My argument is that we will never see any of those great statistical seasons again by a pitcher. Roger had a great ERA two seasons ago, yes. The days of the K pitcher are gone, sluggers have raised ERAs, and no pitcher will get over 22 wins or so, if that.

Spoken like someone with little knowledge of history. Baseball is a game of peaks and valleys.

I know baseball is a game of peaks and valleys. But the downward trend of pitching and upward swing of hitting really begs the question if pitching will ever dominate again, over the course of a full season.

 

[buckweaver]

They said that in the Hot Stove League of 1930-31, Mayfly.

 

[mike311gd]

There are pitchers out there right now like Peavy, Santana, Hamels -- to name a few -- can dominate almost every night out. Even a guy like Erik Bedard can pile on the strikeouts. Within the next five years, we'll have ourselves another 300-strikeout pitcher.

Schilling struck out 300 in 1998 and 316 in 2002; Randy Johnson struck out 347 in 2000 and 372 in 2001.

Another season like that will come around soon. They always do.

 

[buckweaver]

It's funny. I'm a little peeved, pardon the pun, on a personal level because I saw the Beckett-Peavy game (going to great lengths to scalp a ticket on gameday) in San Diego this summer.

I was hoping to see both of them win CYAs so I could say I saw them in the same game. Wonder if the two eventual Cy Young winners have ever pitched against each other in the same year before.

 

[Mayfly]

There are pitchers out there right now like Peavy, Santana, Hamels -- to name a few -- can dominate almost every night out. Even a guy like Erik Bedard can pile on the strikeouts. Within the next five years, we'll have ourselves another 300-strikeout pitcher.

Schilling struck out 300 in 1998 and 316 in 2002; Randy Johnson struck out 347 in 2000 and 372 in 2001.

Another season like that will come around soon. They always do.

Schilling and Johnson were power pitchers at that juncture in their careers. They could blow fastballs by hitters without second guessing themselves. I don't know if I can see a non power pitcher (Peavy is a borderline case) in this current era of baseball strikeout 300 batters. Peavy led the majors with 240. He had 34 starts. Can you see Peavy striking out about two more batters per start? I mean it's possible, and his strikeout numbers have climbed, but I can't see Peavy reaching 300 in the next three seasons, if that. I can't see Santana reaching 300, unless he makes his way over to the NL.

 

[mike311gd]

It's funny. I'm a little peeved, pardon the pun, on a personal level because I saw the Beckett-Peavy game (going to great lengths to scalp a ticket on gameday) in San Diego this summer.

I was hoping to see both of them win CYAs so I could say I saw them in the same game. Wonder if the two eventual Cy Young winners have ever pitched against each other in the same year before.

I think Buck's on a new mission. ...

 

[buckweaver]

Found it.

There's a bit of an asterisk in 2001, because the AL Cy Young winner (Clemens) started Game 7 of the World Series and the NL Cy Young winner (Johnson) came on in relief.

The only time in the last 35 years that the two Cy Young winners have pitched in the same game was April 27, 1984, when Cleveland's Rick Sutcliffe pitched into the 10th inning against Detroit before the Indians won it 8-4 in 19 innings. The AL Cy Young winner, Willie Hernandez, gave up a run in the 10th, but Detroit scored to get him off the hook and extend the game. Sutcliffe, of course, was traded to the Cubs and went 16-1 to win the NL Cy Young Award. (The Tigers, coincidentally, entered that April 27 game with a 16-1 record. It was only their second loss of the season.)

In 1969, the NL Cy Young winner (Seaver) started Games 1 and 4 against the AL co-Cy Young winner (Cuellar). They each won once.

And in 1968, the NL Cy Young winner (Gibson) beat the AL Cy Young winner (McClain) in Games 1 and 4.

Before 1967, there was only one Cy Young winner, though. So, that's it. Pretty rare feat.

 

[Chi City 81]

I figured if there was any shot of a regular-season matchup, it would have been '84 with Sutcliffe.

 

[Nathan Scott Phillips]

It's funny. I'm a little peeved, pardon the pun, on a personal level because I saw the Beckett-Peavy game (going to great lengths to scalp a ticket on gameday) in San Diego this summer.

I was hoping to see both of them win CYAs so I could say I saw them in the same game. Wonder if the two eventual Cy Young winners have ever pitched against each other in the same year before.

Never in regular season. But Clemens and Johnson both appeared in Game 7 of the '01 series, with Johnson entering in relief.

Edit: Oh, never mind.

 

[Mayfly]

I was thinking in 2003 it would have happened with Barry Zito and Eric Gagne, but Oakland didn't play the Dodgers.

 

[buckweaver]

I figured if there was any shot of a regular-season matchup, it would have been '84 with Sutcliffe.

Damn. Good call. I missed that one. The edit's above.

 

[zeke12]

If Santana signs with an NL team, there's your 300K pitcher. He's whiffed at least 235 in each of the past four seasons.

 

[Mayfly]

There are pitchers out there right now like Peavy, Santana, Hamels -- to name a few -- can dominate almost every night out. Even a guy like Erik Bedard can pile on the strikeouts. Within the next five years, we'll have ourselves another 300-strikeout pitcher.

Schilling struck out 300 in 1998 and 316 in 2002; Randy Johnson struck out 347 in 2000 and 372 in 2001.

Another season like that will come around soon. They always do.

Schilling and Johnson were power pitchers at that juncture in their careers. They could blow fastballs by hitters without second guessing themselves. I don't know if I can see a non power pitcher (Peavy is a borderline case) in this current era of baseball strikeout 300 batters. Peavy led the majors with 240. He had 34 starts. Can you see Peavy striking out about two more batters per start? I mean it's possible, and his strikeout numbers have climbed, but I can't see Peavy reaching 300 in the next three seasons, if that. I can't see Santana reaching 300, unless he makes his way over to the NL.

If Santana signs with an NL team, there's your 300K pitcher. He's whiffed at least 235 in each of the past four seasons.

We think alike, Zeke.

 

[mike311gd]

Or unless he can faces the Rangers about 10-12 times a year.