New football offense

[Diabeetus]

Basically the team lines up with a center and two tight ends in the traditional "offensive line" spot. Three receivers right, three left and two quarterbacks in the backfield. On any given play, five of them can go down field, but who knows which five.

Click the link for more info and video of it. Would you like to see a college or pro team try this?

http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=825031

 

[mustangj17]

Just watched this yesterday. The A-11 offense. Looks incredibly complicated. If one WR goes out that isnt supposed to, its a penalty every time. I have to also imagine it is very difficult on the refs.

 

[forever_town]

I'd think the problem there is that the tight ends would have to have linemen's numbers for it to not be an illegal formation. That would then force them to report as eligible receivers, which kind of defeats the whole purpose of the offense.

It looks like something Mouse Davis would have cooked up. And who can trust a guy named Mouse to draw up ball plays?

 

[Diabeetus]

Actually they all do report as eligible. :D You just never know who is going out for a pass or from where. Or if one of the quarterbacks is going to run it.

 

[forever_town]

Of course, you could do what's stopped practically every variant of the run-and-shoot.

Blitz like mad.

Then it becomes Find the open man. In two seconds. Before we tear your head off. (apologies to whoever wrote that during the Redskins last Super Bowl win.)

 

[Mystery_Meat]

You'd have to have an extremely well-coached team to try this at the high school level, or have the patience to spend a couple of years ironing out the wrinkles. And you'd need a lot of good speed guys. Pretty risky, but if you had nothing to lose, why not?

 

[Armchair_QB]

This is basically a six-man football offense with 11 players. Except in six-man everybody is eligible.

 

[forever_town]

I see something like this in the indoor football league I've covered the last two seasons. They play seven a side, so there's no one to pick up blitzers. They're the quarterback's responsibility.

By comparison, give me Arena Football League any day of the week.

 

[dixiehack]

Am I missing something? If you line up in that formation, how are you ever going to have a center eligible to catch a pass?

 

[Armchair_QB]

Am I missing something? If you line up in that formation, how are you ever going to have a center eligible to catch a pass?

There is no way he can be.

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

There hasn't been a major innovation since the invention of the forward pass in 1906. No one would be nearly intrepid enough to run this -- unless everybody else started doing so.

 

[Barsuk]

Just watched this yesterday. The A-11 offense. Looks incredibly complicated. If one WR goes out that isnt supposed to, its a penalty every time. I have to also imagine it is very difficult on the refs.

I don't know about where y'all are, but I have no confidence in the high school refs here to get it right ... ever. If a team used this formation here, I'm pretty sure they would get flagged every play, regardless of whether they committed a penalty.

 

[outofplace]

Sounds like something the New Jersey Generals used to run in the USFL to take advantage of Doug Flutie. And they did run it sometimes with the center as an eligible receiver. They would have a tight end next to him, but the tight end would step back off the line. I remember seeing plays where Flutie actually threw to the center.

Another USFL team, the Memphis Showboats, also ran some spread formations with two quarterbacks.

 

[Hank_Scorpio]

I read a little of the Yahoo story on this. The coach came up with this as a way to try to compete with the bigger schools, he says.

His school isless than 1000 students and they play against schools twice their size.

 

[apeman33]

Am I missing something? If you line up in that formation, how are you ever going to have a center eligible to catch a pass?

If the center is uncovered on one side, he'd be eligible. But then everyone on the uncovered side would all have to be in the backfield (making all of them eligible). That would mean you'd have to play the six other guys on the covered side in order to get seven on the LOS so that the formation would be legal (five more "linemen" and a wide out). That would limit the options on that particular play.

Like so:
F F Q Q
CGGTTT E

The center could be eligible on a play, but it wouldn't be practical as that would be the formation with the fewest pass options. I'd think this would be the easiest to defend, provided the defense picked it up, because only one person to the right of the center can receive a pass.

However, anyone can catch a backward pass, so the center could run back around a take a pitch. That would still be tough to defend but I'd tell my guy on the center to just shadow him because if he runs backward, it's pretty obvious why he is. If he sets up to block, bull rush him and put him out of position to help downfield.

I think the NFL is the only level where it's in the rules that a center can never be eligible, even if he is on the end of the line. (The QB isn't eligible either unless he's in the shotgun).

 

[The Big Ragu]

There hasn't been a major innovation since the invention of the forward pass in 1906. No one would be nearly intrepid enough to run this -- unless everybody else started doing so.

This might work in a H.S. league where you can confuse the hell out of an unprepared or weak defense, but there is a reason why no one has ever done anything like this as a base formation at the high college and pro levels. You are direct snapping the ball to someone without any protection. It's either a snap and throw the ball in less than 2 seconds or a naked bootleg -- that you are announcing in advance.

If I saw this formation, I'd stack the line with a five or six-man pass rush -- which is going to steamroll those two tight ends and the spare back every time and take my chances with the rest of my defenders playing the underneath zones to cover whatever five receivers they send out. You don't really need any safeties, because there is no way the quarterback is getting off anything but a short pass before he gets planted into the turf. This could work as a trick formation every now and then, but a steady diet of it against a coach who knows what he is doing would be ugly beyond belief.

EDIT: Once they got use to that pass rush, I'd just turn the tables. I'd mix it up with blitzes so they can't even figure out where the rush is coming from and drop back guys they aren't expecting into those under zones. This would be ridiculously easy to defend if you have the players.

 

[Della9250]

This offense would only work in high school states that don't follow NCAA rules. NCAA and NFL rules prohibit this kind of offense.

 

[JakeandElwood]

There hasn't been a major innovation since the invention of the forward pass in 1906. No one would be nearly intrepid enough to run this -- unless everybody else started doing so.

This might work in a H.S. league where you can confuse the hell out of an unprepared or weak defense, but there is a reason why no one has ever done anything like this as a base formation at the high college and pro levels. You are direct snapping the ball to someone without any protection. It's either a snap and throw the ball in less than 2 seconds or a naked bootleg -- that you are announcing in advance.

If I saw this formation, I'd stack the line with a five or six-man pass rush -- which is going to steamroll those two tight ends and the spare back every time and take my chances with the rest of my defenders playing the underneath zones to cover whatever five receivers they send out. You don't really need any safeties, because there is no way the quarterback is getting off anything but a short pass before he gets planted into the turf. This could work as a trick formation every now and then, but a steady diet of it against a coach who knows what he is doing would be ugly beyond belief.

EDIT: Once they got use to that pass rush, I'd just turn the tables. I'd mix it up with blitzes so they can't even figure out where the rush is coming from and drop back guys they aren't expecting into those under zones. This would be ridiculously easy to defend if you have the players.

Exactly, against a team that knows what its doing this offense will just get the QB killed.

 

[Hank_Scorpio]

This offense would only work in high school states that don't follow NCAA rules. NCAA and NFL rules prohibit this kind of offense.

It was used last year and approved by the National Federation of High Schools, which I believe follows NCAA rules.


From the linked story:

First, though, Piedmont coaches had to make sure this offense was actually legal. Bryan and Humphries scoured the rulebook, met with league officials and submitted the concept of the offense to the National Federation of High Schools and the California Interscholastic Federation.

Colleges have even implemented some plays in some games, obviously not fulltime.

From the sidebar on the linked story:

Bryan said coaches from 35 to 40 Division I-A schools, and from every conference, have contacted him and Humphries looking for information on the offense. Apparently, the college coaches are quick studies.

Humphries said he saw San Jose State run multiple A-11 plays last season against Stanford. Florida ran an offensive play recalling the A-11 against LSU. And Rutgers and the NFL's San Francisco 49ers ran punt plays containing aspects of Piedmont's offense.

 

[Hustle]

It just seems like a variant of the lonesome polecat. A defense will never be in the dark as to who an eligible receiver is, since six players must be on the LOS and have to stay there for at least a second.

Ragu's spot on with his defense. You can rush five and set up a zone behind to cover quick routes (hooks with the CBs, slants with LBs and fades with S and $ in either half).