Militia movement

[Zeke12]

Remember covering the Salt Lake Olympics and reading several stories (including a big one in The New York Times) about militias in Utah.

This is such a stupid thread...there are militias no matter who is president.

While I agree there's plenty of stupid, here, you might want to actually read the linked story.

 

[Elliotte Friedman]

Azrael,

I just find it dubious. When someone joins a militia, is there a government sign-in sheet? I find it hard to believe it's up by 755 per cent. (If you told me they were up, I'd believe it. But I'd like to know how the research.)

Is it possible people were looking harder under an Obama administration than a Bush one? I don't know. I'm just asking.

 

[Azrael]

The Southern Poverty Law Center study is linked as a .pdf in the story.

 

[franklin lincoln]

How does one define a "patriot group"? Do the "Tea Party Patriots" count? How about the New England Patriots? Or maybe even the Patriot League.

Coincidentally, The Patriot was on TV today.

 

[Elliotte Friedman]

The other figure quoted...the hate groups from 604 in 2000 to more than 1,000 now...that I would believe. Seems like the kind of growth you'd see in a decade.

You're going to tell me hate groups increased by 67 percent, but militia by almost 800? In one-third of the time? Sorry, but it doesn't add up.

 

[YGBFKM]

I'm gonna have Metallica stuck in my head all night.

 

[Zeke12]

Hmm, I wonder if other contemporaneous accounts might be our friend, here?

What's that, you say? The 'sovereign citizen' movement has been sweeping parts of the country? Hm.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/02/georgia_may_soon_crack_down_on_sovereign_citizen_p.php

 

[YGBFKM]

So what we're saying is that America has been turning to **** since Obama was elected. I knew it!

 

[Elliotte Friedman]

That's actually a really good story, thanks for linking. But, aside from the "sweeping" comment, there's nothing about size. Just about nuisance, which I'd absolutely believe.

 

[Zeke12]

The Department of Homeland Security released a report in 2009, also noting massive growth.

http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/rightwing.pdf

 

[Starman]

This is such a stupid thread...there are militias no matter who is president.

I thought militias were invented in January 2009.

The teabagger variety for sure.

 

[zagoshe]

The other figure quoted...the hate groups from 604 in 2000 to more than 1,000 now...that I would believe. Seems like the kind of growth you'd see in a decade.

You're going to tell me hate groups increased by 67 percent, but militia by almost 800? In one-third of the time? Sorry, but it doesn't add up.

No, no - it is a research study that has produced the results we are looking for so therefore it must be gospel truth.....[/crossthread]

 

[Elliotte Friedman]

Again, another good read. (Hope I'm not placed on some watch list for downloading the pdf.) Again, there are no numbers. I have no doubt militias grew in the Obama presidency. The African-American president combined with the faltering economy is a bad mix for this.

But, the statements from the original article strike me as outrageous. Plain fear-mongering.

 

[Zeke12]

The Homeland Security report -- IIRC, I haven't read it since it came out -- noted that after Oklahoma City, most groups disbanded or went completely off the grid. The government barely had any left to track. That might help explain your percentage jump, partially.

The other thing that makes sense to me is the overtness of it. We've got Birthers, truthers, gold bugs, sovereign citizens, border kooks -- it's the Golden Age of Crankdom in America. And these people have isolated themselves from any real sources of information and are impervious to ridicule.

Numbers don't seem out of line, to me.

 

[zagoshe]

The Homeland Security report -- IIRC, I haven't read it since it came out -- noted that after Oklahoma City, most groups disbanded or went completely off the grid. The government barely had any left to track. That might help explain your percentage jump, partially.

The other thing that makes sense to me is the overtness of it. We've got Birthers, truthers, gold bugs, sovereign citizens, border kooks -- it's the Golden Age of Crankdom in America. And these people have isolated themselves from any real sources of information and are impervious to ridicule.

Numbers don't seem out of line, to me.

Right - you include some of those groups as "militias" in the same vein as militias that blow up buildings then whine when someone says that the Occupy Hippies are very similar to militias... :