Maddux, Glavine, Thomas elected to Baseball Hall of Fame; Biggio just misses

[Steak Snabler]

The ballot was released today. Lots of intriguing first-timers and holdovers.

Hall of Famers announced Jan. 8.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Maddux, Biggio and Thomas will be.

Raines, Schilling, and Mussina should be.

Morris will be very close, but shouldn't be.

Piazza and Bagwell will be very close, as well.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Not too hard to find the maximum 10 votes on that list.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Not too hard to find the maximum 10 votes on that list.

It is when you exclude cheaters.

 

[Hank_Scorpio]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Here's the entire ballot:

The ballot:
Moises Alou,
Jeff Bagwell, Armando Benitez, Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds,
Sean Casey, Roger Clemens,
Ray Durham,
Eric Gagne, Tom Glavine, Luis Gonzalez,
Jacque Jones, Todd Jones,
Jeff Kent,
Paul Lo Duca,
Greg Maddux, Edgar Martinez, Don Mattingly, Fred McGriff, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Mike Mussina,
Hideo Nomo,
Rafael Palmeiro, Mike Piazza,
Tim Raines, Kenny Rogers,
Curt Schilling, Richie Sexson, Lee Smith, J.T. Snow, Sammy Sosa,
Frank Thomas, Mike Timlin, Alan Trammell,
Larry Walker.


And a video from the Hall of Fame with brief highlight on each one:

http://baseballhall.org/news/press-releases/2014-hall-fame-ballot-out-today

 

[Michael_ Gee]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

****, I've stated my policy here before. If the Hall, which MLB controls, wants to kick guys off the ballot for drug use, that's fine. But I won't do Selig's dirty work for him. If players are on the ballot, I will consider them as players, period.

 

[heyabbott]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Not too hard to find the maximum 10 votes on that list.

It is when you exclude cheaters.

My dividing line on cheaters:
If the player's primary motivation to cheat was to recover from injury or extend his career I'm not letting it get in the way of believing they are HOFers, Bonds and Clemens.
But if they cheated to become better players than they naturally could be, they are not HOFers, Palmeiro, McGwire and Sosa.

 

[outofplace]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Not at all, but I imagine some jackass will turn in a blank ballot to protest something or other.

Maddux is going to be the latest guy who should be unanimous, but won't. Seriously, what possible argument can you make that the guy doesn't belong? I truly hope there aren't any voters clueless enough to say they honestly don't see him as a Hall of Famer.

Thomas should also get in easily.

I'm not sure Biggio is a lock and honestly, I think Bagwell is more deserving. Those two and Piazza belong, but I'm betting Piazza and Bagwell fall short again. Too many voters who would rather punish the innocent than vote for anybody under any suspicion of PED use, even if there is no evidence against them.

I don't think Mussina belongs, but I don't have a huge problem with him making it. I'd put Schilling in first, but I see both as borderline.

 

[heyabbott]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

****, I've stated my policy here before. If the Hall, which MLB controls, wants to kick guys off the ballot for drug use, that's fine. But I won't do Selig's dirty work for him. If players are on the ballot, I will consider them as players, period.

i will adopt your opinion.

 

[outofplace]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Not too hard to find the maximum 10 votes on that list.

It is when you exclude cheaters.

Who on that list has been proven to be a cheater? Not suspected, but proven.

 

[Steak Snabler]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Not too hard to find the maximum 10 votes on that list.

It is when you exclude cheaters.

My dividing line on cheaters:
If the player's primary motivation to cheat was to recover from injury or extend his career I'm not letting it get in the way of believing they are HOFers, Bonds and Clemens.
But if they cheated to become better players than they naturally could be, they are not HOFers, Palmeiro, McGwire and Sosa.

McGwire missed almost two full years due to injury in the mid-90s. Then he came back and started hitting 50 homers every year. So he meets your criteria as well.

 

[Steak Snabler]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Not too hard to find the maximum 10 votes on that list.

It is when you exclude cheaters.

Who on that list has been proven to be a cheater? Not suspected, but proven.

If your definition of "proven" is "failed an MLB test for PEDs" then Palmeiro is the only one (although McGwire has admitted to using PEDs). If you mean "there is a mountain of circumstantial evidence against them," then Clemens, Sosa and Bonds as well.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Not too hard to find the maximum 10 votes on that list.

It is when you exclude cheaters.

Who on that list has been proven to be a cheater? Not suspected, but proven.

Palmeiro, McGwire, and Sosa, right? Bonds for the most part. He as much as admitted using in his GJ testimony - just said he didn't know what it was. Not sure if intent is required for conviction here or not, though.

 

[Steak Snabler]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Not too hard to find the maximum 10 votes on that list.

It is when you exclude cheaters.

Who on that list has been proven to be a cheater? Not suspected, but proven.

Palmeiro, McGwire, and Sosa, right? Bonds for the most part. He as much as admitted using in his GJ testimony - just said he didn't know what it was. Not sure if intent is required for conviction here or not, though.

And Clemens

 

[outofplace]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Not too hard to find the maximum 10 votes on that list.

It is when you exclude cheaters.

Who on that list has been proven to be a cheater? Not suspected, but proven.

Palmeiro, McGwire, and Sosa, right? Bonds for the most part. He as much as admitted using in his GJ testimony - just said he didn't know what it was. Not sure if intent is required for conviction here or not, though.

I see those as reasonable, but to be honest, I'd want either a confession or a failed drug test to keep a guy out. Otherwise, it becomes more and more subjective how much guesswork you are doing.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Not too hard to find the maximum 10 votes on that list.

It is when you exclude cheaters.

My dividing line on cheaters:
If the player's primary motivation to cheat was to recover from injury or extend his career I'm not letting it get in the way of believing they are HOFers, Bonds and Clemens.
But if they cheated to become better players than they naturally could be, they are not HOFers, Palmeiro, McGwire and Sosa.

That would be my policy as well if I had a vote. Granted, we're assuming we know when they started using.

 

[nmmetsfan]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Not too hard to find the maximum 10 votes on that list.

It is when you exclude cheaters.

Who on that list has been proven to be a cheater? Not suspected, but proven.

Palmeiro, McGwire, and Sosa, right? Bonds for the most part. He as much as admitted using in his GJ testimony - just said he didn't know what it was. Not sure if intent is required for conviction here or not, though.

I see those as reasonable, but to be honest, I'd want either a confession or a failed drug test to keep a guy out. Otherwise, it becomes more and more subjective how much guesswork you are doing.

I think your stance is reasonable. I also think it's reasonable for voters to keep a guy out based on circumstantial evidence. A vote is always going to be subjective, otherwise there'd be hard guidelines to follow.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Not too hard to find the maximum 10 votes on that list.

It is when you exclude cheaters.

Who on that list has been proven to be a cheater? Not suspected, but proven.

Palmeiro, McGwire, and Sosa, right? Bonds for the most part. He as much as admitted using in his GJ testimony - just said he didn't know what it was. Not sure if intent is required for conviction here or not, though.

I see those as reasonable, but to be honest, I'd want either a confession or a failed drug test to keep a guy out. Otherwise, it becomes more and more subjective how much guesswork you are doing.

Didn't Bonds claim to have used some by accident, that he used something given to him by a trainer? I know that's bull****, but it is admitting he used.

But, Palmeiro and McGwire would be the only ones who either failed tests or admitted using.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

Not too hard to find the maximum 10 votes on that list.

It is when you exclude cheaters.

Who on that list has been proven to be a cheater? Not suspected, but proven.

Palmeiro, McGwire, and Sosa, right? Bonds for the most part. He as much as admitted using in his GJ testimony - just said he didn't know what it was. Not sure if intent is required for conviction here or not, though.

I see those as reasonable, but to be honest, I'd want either a confession or a failed drug test to keep a guy out. Otherwise, it becomes more and more subjective how much guesswork you are doing.

I think your stance is reasonable. I also think it's reasonable for voters to keep a guy out based on circumstantial evidence. A vote is always going to be subjective, otherwise there'd be hard guidelines to follow.

It's pretty well-known Piazza admitted to beat writers that he used. Bagwell got so big at one point in his career that it's an obvious assumption that he used. I think both get in, maybe this year, maybe ahead of Clemens and Bonds...

 

[Della9250]

Re: 2014 BBWAA Baseball Hall of Fame ballot released

I was hopeful that when they announced the ballot, they would also announce the end of the 10-vote limit.

And even if you take out those who you view as cheaters/potential cheaters, you could still have more than 10 to vote for. There are 21 players on the ballot you could make a reasonable case for.