Life after journalism

[captzulu]

interviewed this morning for a p.r. job and the skills i developed in running a small newsroom seem perfect for what they're looking for. and while my fingers and toes are crossed about getting the gig, it'd still feel weird for a while. but the better pay and long-term prospects would make up for that.

I can't see how "sports" journalists can waltz into a PR agency, with no advertising experience and no business writing experience, and get anything other than a see-ya. Nor can I see them getting in at a Chamber of Commerce. Sports information, maybe, but at a significant pay cut and ****tier hours. How the hell this happens, legitimately, explain.

You don't waltz into an agency and expect to have a job handed to you. You search long and hard, identify job openings that your skills and experience would translate well over to, send out a bunch of applications, and have a few of those turn into interviews and potentially job offers. Don't bother selling your "sports" experience; instead, sell your "writing" experience, your knowledge of how the media works, your comfort level with tight deadlines.

I wrote the following on a previous thread about the same topic:

NEVER refer to yourself as a "sportswriter" in your resume or cover letter. Call yourself a journalist. Really sell your experience with deadlines. Don't just say "I'm comfortable on deadline". Tell them how you turn around 600-1,000 word stories in the span of an hour every night. Recount stories about how you handled big breaking news to show you can deal with unexpected emergencies. In my experience, when most interviewers from non-newspaper fields say "we work on some pretty tight deadlines here", their deadlines are like comfy long-term assignments for a sports journalist. Being specific about what you mean when you say "deadline" will help impress them with your grace under pressure.

If you're sending in clips, pick a nice mix that shows off your ability to write things other than just game action or jock features. Ever helped out and wrote a news story? Send that in. It doesn't have to be amazing; just as long as it's not embarrassing and has good grammar and no typos. When you're trying to get out of sportswriting, a clips package stuffed with APSE-winning sports stories doesn't do as much for you as a portfolio of some good sports stories and some solid/decent news/feature stories. Applying for a technical writing job? Tell them that you're no stranger to organizing vast amounts of information and communicating them to the public in a clear, concise manner (what else would you call taking all the action and stats from a 3-hour prep football game and condensing it into 500 words, all in 30 minutes no less?). Up for a job that involves some customer/client interaction? Tell them how you massaged your sources to get them to cooperate. Look at the attributes that make you a good journalist and ask, "Why am I good on deadline? Why am I good at getting sources to talk?" Oh, it's because you are organized and don't panic under pressure, and you're at reading people during a conversation. Those are the kind of traits that will apply to other jobs, and you need to draw a line between the trait and your work to show the hiring managers the connection.

Cite examples that illustrate your ability to adapt quickly, because it indicates to them that you know how to take the skills you have and apply them to different things, not just sportswriting. If you took photos, shot video, edited copy, did design, play up all of those just as much as your writing. Portray yourself as someone who's good/solid in a lot of things, with writing being your strongest skill. Don't portray yourself as someone who's looking to get out of a dying industry. Convey the idea that you "chose" to apply your considerable repertoire of skills toward journalism for a while, but now you are "choosing" to apply them elsewhere (this works better if you haven't been in newspapers for decades). And, of course, tell them a reason that you actually want that position because you're interested in what that position does, not just because it's a lifeboat off a sinking ship.

The key is to find a position where they are looking for someone with strong writing skills first and foremost, and PR experience second. Yes, that might mean having to take a step down in the career ladder to get out of this field, but considering how crappy journalism pays, you may very well take a step "down" in another field and still make more than in newspapers.

 

[Moderator1]

interviewed this morning for a p.r. job and the skills i developed in running a small newsroom seem perfect for what they're looking for. and while my fingers and toes are crossed about getting the gig, it'd still feel weird for a while. but the better pay and long-term prospects would make up for that.

I can't see how "sports" journalists can waltz into a PR agency, with no advertising experience and no business writing experience, and get anything other than a see-ya. Nor can I see them getting in at a Chamber of Commerce. Sports information, maybe, but at a significant pay cut and ****tier hours. How the hell this happens, legitimately, explain.

Pay cut?
Uh, no.
But don't take my word for it. I'm just a bull**** dispenser.

 

[crimsonace]

It requires additional schooling, but there are a ton of ex-journos that have moved into education, myself included.

 

[SockPuppet]

But don't take my word for it. I'm just a bull**** dispenser.

C'mon, M1, don't sell yourself short. You're an excellent bull**** dispenser.

 

[Moderator1]

But don't take my word for it. I'm just a bull**** dispenser.

C'mon, M1, don't sell yourself short. You're an excellent bull**** dispenser.

The best. And a well-paid one at that.

 

[txsportsscribe]

interviewed this morning for a p.r. job and the skills i developed in running a small newsroom seem perfect for what they're looking for. and while my fingers and toes are crossed about getting the gig, it'd still feel weird for a while. but the better pay and long-term prospects would make up for that.

I can't see how "sports" journalists can waltz into a PR agency, with no advertising experience and no business writing experience, and get anything other than a see-ya. Nor can I see them getting in at a Chamber of Commerce. Sports information, maybe, but at a significant pay cut and ****tier hours. How the hell this happens, legitimately, explain.

my, don't you sound bitter about something. but just for clarification, i started in sports and worked my way to managing editor of a small daily. the skills that i hope will transfer are solid writing in all areas, management, photography, page design, etc.

 

[ScribePharisee]

interviewed this morning for a p.r. job and the skills i developed in running a small newsroom seem perfect for what they're looking for. and while my fingers and toes are crossed about getting the gig, it'd still feel weird for a while. but the better pay and long-term prospects would make up for that.

I can't see how "sports" journalists can waltz into a PR agency, with no advertising experience and no business writing experience, and get anything other than a see-ya. Nor can I see them getting in at a Chamber of Commerce. Sports information, maybe, but at a significant pay cut and ****tier hours. How the hell this happens, legitimately, explain.

You don't waltz into an agency and expect to have a job handed to you. You search long and hard, identify job openings that your skills and experience would translate well over to, send out a bunch of applications, and have a few of those turn into interviews and potentially job offers. Don't bother selling your "sports" experience; instead, sell your "writing" experience, your knowledge of how the media works, your comfort level with tight deadlines.

I wrote the following on a previous thread about the same topic:

NEVER refer to yourself as a "sportswriter" in your resume or cover letter. Call yourself a journalist. Really sell your experience with deadlines. Don't just say "I'm comfortable on deadline". Tell them how you turn around 600-1,000 word stories in the span of an hour every night. Recount stories about how you handled big breaking news to show you can deal with unexpected emergencies. In my experience, when most interviewers from non-newspaper fields say "we work on some pretty tight deadlines here", their deadlines are like comfy long-term assignments for a sports journalist. Being specific about what you mean when you say "deadline" will help impress them with your grace under pressure.

If you're sending in clips, pick a nice mix that shows off your ability to write things other than just game action or jock features. Ever helped out and wrote a news story? Send that in. It doesn't have to be amazing; just as long as it's not embarrassing and has good grammar and no typos. When you're trying to get out of sportswriting, a clips package stuffed with APSE-winning sports stories doesn't do as much for you as a portfolio of some good sports stories and some solid/decent news/feature stories. Applying for a technical writing job? Tell them that you're no stranger to organizing vast amounts of information and communicating them to the public in a clear, concise manner (what else would you call taking all the action and stats from a 3-hour prep football game and condensing it into 500 words, all in 30 minutes no less?). Up for a job that involves some customer/client interaction? Tell them how you massaged your sources to get them to cooperate. Look at the attributes that make you a good journalist and ask, "Why am I good on deadline? Why am I good at getting sources to talk?" Oh, it's because you are organized and don't panic under pressure, and you're at reading people during a conversation. Those are the kind of traits that will apply to other jobs, and you need to draw a line between the trait and your work to show the hiring managers the connection.

Cite examples that illustrate your ability to adapt quickly, because it indicates to them that you know how to take the skills you have and apply them to different things, not just sportswriting. If you took photos, shot video, edited copy, did design, play up all of those just as much as your writing. Portray yourself as someone who's good/solid in a lot of things, with writing being your strongest skill. Don't portray yourself as someone who's looking to get out of a dying industry. Convey the idea that you "chose" to apply your considerable repertoire of skills toward journalism for a while, but now you are "choosing" to apply them elsewhere (this works better if you haven't been in newspapers for decades). And, of course, tell them a reason that you actually want that position because you're interested in what that position does, not just because it's a lifeboat off a sinking ship.

The key is to find a position where they are looking for someone with strong writing skills first and foremost, and PR experience second. Yes, that might mean having to take a step down in the career ladder to get out of this field, but considering how crappy journalism pays, you may very well take a step "down" in another field and still make more than in newspapers.

It works if:
You live in a large metro area where PR ops abound; or if you are married, is your spouse willing to move? I know people who have gotten out of the business, tried working in entry level banking or the grocery store in middletown America and became miserable, leading to a divorce. I really feel for the middle-age people out there who are searching anywhere...they have a great deal of experience and let's face it, are discriminated against because of their age.

 

[buckweaver]

It works if:
You live in a large metro area where PR ops abound; or if you are married, is your spouse willing to move? I know people who have gotten out of the business, tried working in entry level banking or the grocery store in middletown America and became miserable, leading to a divorce. I really feel for the middle-age people out there who are searching anywhere...they have a great deal of experience and let's face it, are discriminated against because of their age.

Like anything else, life is what you make of it.

Some people will be miserable, some people will be more thrilled than they could have imagined. Some people will find a better opportunity than they had before, some people will regret it the moment they leave the old one behind.

There are no guarantees. And there are no instruction manuals for success.

Find something that works for you, and don't look back.

 

[captzulu]

It works if:
You live in a large metro area where PR ops abound; or if you are married, is your spouse willing to move? I know people who have gotten out of the business, tried working in entry level banking or the grocery store in middletown America and became miserable, leading to a divorce. I really feel for the middle-age people out there who are searching anywhere...they have a great deal of experience and let's face it, are discriminated against because of their age.

PR, banking, and peddling groceries aren't the only jobs out there. And even if you were able to walk into a PR firm and be handed a job, that doesn't necessarily mean you would be happy. But I don't buy the whole "so-and-so left journalism for job x and was miserable" line of reasoning that I've seen some journalists use to talk themselves into staying. That person may be miserable in his/her new job, but they were obviously not happy in journalism either, considering that it was enough to drive them to make a career change. Fear of jumping into a bad situation shouldn't be a reason to stay in another bad situation; otherwise, you're guaranteed to stay in a bad situation.

 

[ScribePharisee]

Did I tell you I'm happy and relatively secure with my job?

I forgot. Now if I got axed tomorrow, I might not feel this way.

I'm just one that feels for those who feel they're stuck.

 

[gridiron]

The thing that has most impacted my feelings about getting out is money. For those, like me, who are at a big paper and making more than many of your colleagues, it's hard to maintain that salary if you change careers.

I'm more than grateful for where I am in my career. But the state of the industry, the hours and the changing expectations (24/7 deadlines on competitive beats like mine, blogging day and night) have soured me big time -- even though I'm doing exactly what I hoped I would at this point in my life (early 30s). I think it might be time for a preemptive strike.

But it's a huge dilemma because of my circumstances (there's a family involved, too) and I often lay in bed at night staring at the ceiling wondering what's the right move. It pretty much sucks.

I think if I were a little younger or making just peanuts, this would be a much easier call.

 

[leo1]

i struggled with this for a while, too. then i went to law school. now i'm a lawyer. i like it a lot. my journalism background helped me get the job i have. i do commercial litigation, write briefs and pleadings, argue in court and occasionally do non-litigation things like contract review and negotiating with parties.

 

[Editude]

It's a challenge, as a mid-career journalist at a big place making decent money, to transition into something more stable/interesting that wouldn't be a big pay cut. The alternative, being pushed out with a severance, isn't that appealing either. I'm waiting for the pay raise when we stop paying for the younger Editudes' car insurance.

 

[zagoshe]

PR/media relations/flakdom/whatever you want to call it for me and it is wonderful.
I still miss my staff a whole lot.
I still don't miss the job one iota.

It's an interesting world out there on the outside. I left not long after an almost-30 type who was talking about those who left before us for jobs that paid more. The skills it takes to be a good journalist, particularly the organizational skills and work ethic, make us very valuable to lots of companies. There's at least five from the paper working at VCU in some capacity now, with more to come.

If you had told me five, three, even two years ago that I'd be ridiculously happy outside journalism, I would have said you were nuts. No, I was nuts.

Yes but didn't you have to take a decent pay cut to go from journalism to college PR?

 

[Moderator1]

No.

 

[Joe Williams]

No.

So we're to assume you were making a pittance where you were before, such that college PR pay would be a boost? Or do they just pay real well behind those ivy-covered walls?

 

[buckweaver]

Some of us are doing OK for ourselves, Joe. Really. I know that doesn't fit your message here, but it's true. Stands to reason that we can do better, sure -- but not all of us are in dire straits.

 

[Moderator1]

No.

So we're to assume you were making a pittance where you were before, such that college PR pay would be a boost? Or do they just pay real well behind those ivy-covered walls?

See buckweaver's post.
I was not making a pittance. I was doing pretty well and not actively looking to leave. I didn't do a comparison of what other schools paid. I know what they offered me was an increase and very fair so I took it.
I think it is a myth that all newspaper pay is ****ty and that PR pay is worse. In my case, neither was true.

 

[Joe Williams]

Some of us are doing OK for ourselves, Joe. Really. I know that doesn't fit your message here, but it's true. Stands to reason that we can do better, sure -- but not all of us are in dire straits.

Yo, Buck, I was just working out the math. You might feel that I bring one overriding agenda to most of my posts, but I don't. All I was saying was, either Moddy started low and thus got a bump into the expected range of PR pay, or that Moddy started fine and got a bump to something that is beyond what most people presume to be PR pay. Without seeking specifics, I was trying to get a handle on how PR pay could be better than newspaper pay -- either the former is better than what most of us figure, or the latter is as ****ty as the stereotype portrays it. One of those things had to be true and I was curious as to which.

BTW, I'll state for the record that, other than my first two jobs, I never, ever have felt underpaid as a sportswriter. I often have felt underemployed, knowing that certain financial goals would forever be beyond my reach as a sportswriter or knowing that I wasn't pushing myself to take on meatier subjects or roles. Once in a while, I felt there were gross inequities within a certain place's pay scale -- certain high producers weren't paid as well as some low (or lower quality) producers, for instance. But in terms of what was asked for what was offered, and vice versa, I generally felt the ballpark numbers were fair.

Don't think you'll find many, if any, of my posts where I'm ragging about the money end of this business, other than this: If we're going to put up with all the other ills of this industry, maybe the money should be better to compensate. My biggest gripes always have been about lousy leadership, lack of advancement opportunities, job insecurity lately and a lot of other intellectual bankruptcy issues in a business that allegedly aims high and attracts some of the best and brightest. I rarely have felt management has been up to the task or even was able to meet its infantry's standards, values and vision. I think newsroom leaders repeatedly have dropped the ball, regarding people skills, staff development, business savvy and reader relations.

Still and all, I'm glad to hear that some papers pay well and some PR jobs pay better.

 

[Corky Ramirez up on 94th St.]

Sometimes I wonder about this daily. Most of the time it's hourly.

I have tried forever to get a job at a college or university. For the last 2 1/2 years, I've probably applied to 85 jobs (PR, communications, athletics) at roughly 30 colleges in our region.

I've gotten only four interviews. Finished second in all four.

Sometimes I wonder if 10 years at one shop is not a good thing, that I should have gone to other jobs so it would show that I have been to different places. But then I ask, how in the world would that matter, considering I've written and copy edited for every section of our newspaper, everything from sports to fires to a dead body in the park at 10 p.m.? The frustration level is off the charts...especially when I see friends at other papers in our area get laid off.

One last thing: Is there someone on here who could take a look at my resume? It's the same template I've used, essentially, since I applied for my current job 10 years ago out of college. Thanks.

At any rate, for those of you in the same boat as I am: Hang in there. Good things happen to good people. That's what keeps me going. Something will fall into place and it won't be too late. It'll make this time period, even though it is frustrating as ****, seem that much better when you're doing what you want to do.