Kornheiser on Eli Manning

[pallister]

Not sure the Steelers were fooled into taking Martin with a fifth-round pick. They took a flier; it didn't work out. It's not as if they expected him to be a franchise QB, a la Shuler.

 

[Bubbler]

For Archie Manning to survive and get the kudos from his playing peers while playing for the Saints was phenomenal and he is entitled to all the praise he receives. When he played, the only player approaching Pro Bowl status on offense was Danny Abramowicz (sp?); the forerunner to Wayne Chrebet.

Actually when Manning won his '78 NFC Player of the Year, the Saints had a damn good offense.

His receivers were Ike Harris -- who was decent with the mid 70s Cardinals and rookie Wes Chandler, who would go on to greater things. Manning had one of the best tight ends in the NFL that season in the forgotten Henry Childs (53 catches, 862 yards ... good for the era). He had the underrated Tony Galbreath at fullback, who caught 74 passes and rushed for 635 yards. The halfback was Chuck Muncie, who had a good NFL career.

The Saints' line wasn't bad in '78 or '79 either. Manning was sacked only 17 times in '79.

The 1978 and 1979 versions of the Saints were the only two years in Manning's career they actually gave him something to work with ... and he was pretty damn good. The Saints were 7-9 and 8-8 in those two seasons.

The Saints' defense was sporadic at best in those years and it cost them several games, most memorably in a pair of Hail Mary losses to Atlanta in '78 which basically cost the Saints a playoff spot as the Falcons got the wild card at 9-7. Reverse those two losses and the Saints are in the playoffs.

The Saints offense wasn't that bad in '80 -- the 'Aints season -- but the defense was God awful.

Then the Saints traded Muncie and Chandler to the Chargers and that was that.

 

[Hammer Pants]

Not sure the Steelers were fooled into taking Martin with a fifth-round pick. They took a flier; it didn't work out. It's not as if they expected him to be a franchise QB, a la Shuler.

Come on. All I said was they thought he was a professional quarterback.

I never said "franchise." You did.

If they thought he wasn't a "professional" quarterback, they wouldn't have taken him in the fifth round.

I'm not sure why you have a problem with what I wrote.

 

[pallister]

I don't have a problem with it. You just lumped Shuler and Martin together implying Cutcliffe's coaching made them out to be better than they were. That was obviosuly the case with Shuler, but Martin turned out to be what scouts expected him to be: a second-day pick who didn't have the skills to be an NFL player.

 

[Hammer Pants]

I don't have a problem with it. You just lumped Shuler and Martin together implying Cutcliffe's coaching made them out to be better than they were. That was obviosuly the case with Shuler, but Martin turned out to be what scouts expected him to be: a second-day pick who didn't have the skills to be an NFL player.

OK ... but there's no question Cutcliffe fooled some people into thinking Martin was an NFL quarterback. The dude won a national title, completed a then-NCAA record 24 consecutive passes in one game and was always one of the best athletes on the field. I'm just sayin ... he was well-coached, and some thought he could be a solid pro.

I hate arguing with White Sox fans. I keed, I keed...

 

[pallister]

Fair enough.

 

[Hammer Pants]

Fair enough.

Indeed.

And, getting back to the point of the thread...

 

[pallister]

Eli Manning is one of the better QBs in the NFL right now (easily top 10). In a couple of years, he has the potential to be behind only his bro and Brady.

 

[HejiraHenry]

In the end, Manning will be much better than Rivers.

Man, I really doubt that. I watched Rivers in college and marveled at that arm. He could make the toughest throws from the day he took the field for N.C. State.

Eli? He's always looked mechanical, preprogrammed, to me.

 

[pallister]

Rivers will never be the QB Eli will be. Jeff George "made all the throws", too.

 

[Double Down]

Man, I really doubt that. I watched Rivers in college and marveled at that arm. He could make the toughest throws from the day he took the field for N.C. State.

Just not against Maryland.

Sorry, I only posted that for my boy Flying Headbutt.

 

[Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!!]

Eli Manning is one of the better QBs in the NFL right now (easily top 10). In a couple of years, he has the potential to be behind only his bro and Brady.

Easily?
You might want to revise that statement.

Off the top of my head:
1. Tom Brady, Future HoF'er
2. Brett Favre, (Somewhere John Madden just came in his Packers boxer shorts!) ... Future HoF'er
3. Peyton Manning, Future HoF'er
4. Big Ben Roethlisberger, Good start on potential HoF'er
5. Donovan McNabb, Future HoF'er
6. Steve McNair, Future HoF'er
7. Carson Palmer, Pretty good for his career
8. Drew Brees, Nice start to his career
9. Tony Romo, The Cowboys hafe only one loss.
10. Vince Young, Electric player
Mike Vick would be on this list if he were playing.
The top eight or nine are pretty hard to argue, damn near indefensible if you are trying to slip Eli's name in.
Not on this list: Trent Dilfer, Kurt Warner, and Trent Green
Eli might be considered a Top 10 QB, but he could just as "easily" be labeled a top 20 QB in the NFL.

I think to say "Easily a Top 10 QB" is an overstatement.

 

[Pancamo]

Vince Young is not better. Sorry.

 

[outofplace]

Rivers will never be the QB Eli will be. Jeff George "made all the throws", too.

Sorry, but that's not a fair comparison. George was a gigantic pain in the ass who refused to learn from anybody. He sabotaged his own career over and over again by being a prick or an idiot, depending on who you ask.

Is there any indication at all that Rivers has similar issues? That sure doesn't sound like what I've heard about him.

Eli Manning is borderline to the top 10, though I agree with the other poster that I wouldn't put Vince Young ahead of him either. I just don't see what potential he has that is going to push him past some of the guys ahead of him on the list.

Palmer has great talent, too. So does Roethlisberger. I'm trying to stick to guys in a similar age range. Let's take the guy who is clearly the lesser of those two. What does Eli Manning have that Ben Roethlisberger lacks?

 

[Captain_Kirk]

When all is said and done, Eli's career will be better than Rivers. I'm just not sure by how much.

 

[pallister]

Off the top of my head:
1. Tom Brady, Future HoF'er
2. Brett Favre, (Somewhere John Madden just came in his Packers boxer shorts!) ... Future HoF'er
3. Peyton Manning, Future HoF'er
4. Big Ben Roethlisberger, Good start on potential HoF'er
5. Donovan McNabb, Future HoF'er
6. Steve McNair, Future HoF'er
7. Carson Palmer, Pretty good for his career
8. Drew Brees, Nice start to his career
9. Tony Romo, The Cowboys hafe only one loss.
10. Vince Young, Electric player
Mike Vick would be on this list if he were playing.
The top eight or nine are pretty hard to argue, damn near indefensible if you are trying to slip Eli's name in.
Not on this list: Trent Dilfer, Kurt Warner, and Trent Green

Eli might be considered a Top 10 QB, but he could just as "easily" be labeled a top 20 QB in the NFL.

This is a joke, right?

Peyton No. 3? After Favre? OK.

Roethlisberger is not the fourth-best QB in the league, although I'm sure your assesment of "Big Ben" is totally objective.

At this point, McNair is not even the sixth-best QB in the four-team AFC North, and he is not and never has been a HOF'er.

Drew Brees has had a couple of nice seasons, but has been erratic over the course of his career (yes, just as erratic as Eli).

Has Romo even started a full season's worth of games? He's got the most potential on this list, but he's still got something to prove.

Vince Young can be an electric player, but he's still got a long way to go. Like Romo, he has lots of upside, but it's early.

Michael Vick? Anyone who puts him in a list of Top 10 QBs hasn't been paying attention to football for the last few years.



I think Rivers will be better than George, just not as good as Eli.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

Guy who's being dissed on that list is Palmer, who will show to far greater advantage if/when Bungles ever assemble anything resembling a defense with players who are capable of staying off the police blotter.

 

[Flying Headbutt]

This is a joke, right?

At this point, McNair is not even the sixth-best QB in the four-team AFC North, and he is not and never has been a HOF'er.

That's what I asked after seeing that, too.

 

[outofplace]

Manning anywhere below second is too low. Palmer anywhere below third is too low.

Who is the 4th-best QB in the NFL? I would've thought Brees before the season, but he has taken a huge step backward. Not sure I'd put Roethlisberger there, either. I'd put both ahead of Manning, but not sure about the No. 4 spot. There really is a big gap after Palmer.

And yes, Brees has been erratic. But he has had that one season in which he put it all together, last season. Manning hasn't done yet. Maybe he is on the way this year, but it's early.

 

[heyabbott]

Donovan McNabb is not in the all-time top 50 in any major category. No HOF.

The Giants are the 2nd ranked offense in the NFC this season, don't hate on Eli.