Kornheiser - just so stoopid

[spnited]

But you have said Rick that W(ins)AR is the best way to determine a player's value to his team. How can that be when wins are a team stat, not an individual stat?

 

[RickStain]

Here's one problem I have with saber inconsistency.

If wins don't matter, why is WAR (WINS above replacement) so important as a measure of a player's value?

See my response to 93.

I'm going to invent a stat. Run If Not Gloved. That's where a baserunner tries to score but is tagged out between third and home. We can call these RINGS.

Since we all players play to get rings, this is now the most important stat in the game.

 

[playthrough]

Until quality starts, WHIP and WAR win the division, there will always be a good argument for wins being a the Ace of Spades in the Cy discussion.

Christ, banging head on the wall.

Wins are team stats, not individual. It really isn't that hard to understand.

Which is why ****ty, 20-win pitchers are a dime a dozen.

Nice straw man.

In all honesty the answer lies in the middle, I just like jerking around the stats-obsessed baseball fans. Still, I bang my head on the wall when people just want to discount wins completely.

This.

 

[RickStain]

But you have said Rick that W(ins)AR is the best way to determine a player's value to his team. How can that be when wins are a team stat, not an individual stat?

Logical fallacy of equivocation. Team wins and pitching wins are not the same thing, just because they share a name. Do you think that a bass (a guitar) and a bass (a fish) are the same thing? A tear (from the eye) and a tear (as in a rip)?

Wins and wins are not the same thing, either.


Also, I never said WAR is the best way. It's one of a number of solid ways, and it's easy to look up so it's frequently used.

 

[spnited]

Here's one problem I have with saber inconsistency.

If wins don't matter, why is WAR (WINS above replacement) so important as a measure of a player's value?

See my response to 93.

I'm going to invent a stat. Run If Not Gloved. That's where a baserunner tries to score but is tagged out between third and home. We can call these RINGS.

Since we all players play to get rings, this is now the most important stat in the game.

In other words, you have no answer.

Thry this: Are the wins in WAR different from a pitcher's wins?

 

[RagingCanuck]

Yes, they are different. Wins, as currently determined on stat sheets for players, are considered to be 100% the responsibility of the pitcher. WAR proportions them out to different positions based on their contributions.

 

[poindexter]

Until quality starts, WHIP and WAR win the division, there will always be a good argument for wins being a the Ace of Spades in the Cy discussion.

That was my whole point of this thread.

Quality starts aren't a sabermetic stat.

 

[spnited]

Yes, they are different. Wins, as currently determined on stat sheets for players, are considered to be 100% the responsibility of the pitcher. WAR proportions them out to different positions based on their contributions.

Saber babble.

But not as bad as Rick trying to tell me that a win is not a win.

 

[RickStain]

Here's one problem I have with saber inconsistency.

If wins don't matter, why is WAR (WINS above replacement) so important as a measure of a player's value?

See my response to 93.

I'm going to invent a stat. Run If Not Gloved. That's where a baserunner tries to score but is tagged out between third and home. We can call these RINGS.

Since we all players play to get rings, this is now the most important stat in the game.

In other words, you have no answer.

Thry this: Are the wins in WAR different from a pitcher's wins?

The wins in WAR are representing the things a player has individually done to contribute to the number of times his team defeats another team in a competitive baseball game.

The wins in a pitcher's wins are representing the times a pitcher starts the game, goes at least five innings, leaves the game with the lead and the opposing team never ties the game after he leaves; plus the number of times he starts the game, pitches at least five innings, leaves the game at the end of the inning and his team is tied or losing, and they take a lead they never relinquish in the next half-inning before another pitcher has pitched, plus the number of times the pitcher relieves with his team tied or losing is the most recent pitcher when they take the lead for the final time, plus the number of times a pitcher pitches in a game his team wins where the starter did not go five innings and that pitcher is named most effective by the official scorer.

 

[RickStain]

Yes, they are different. Wins, as currently determined on stat sheets for players, are considered to be 100% the responsibility of the pitcher. WAR proportions them out to different positions based on their contributions.

Saber babble.

But not as bad as Rick trying to tell me that a win is not a win.

Are you telling me my rings are not rings?

 

[spnited]

Quaity starts is BS, too. 3 ER in 6 inn. is a 4.50 ERA. Not quality.

 

[RickStain]

Quaity starts is BS, too. 3 ER in 6 inn. is a 4.50 ERA. Not quality.

How can you understand something called a "Quality Star" is not automatically quality, but something called a "Win" is not the same as a win.

 

[spnited]

Yes, they are different. Wins, as currently determined on stat sheets for players, are considered to be 100% the responsibility of the pitcher. WAR proportions them out to different positions based on their contributions.

Saber babble.

But not as bad as Rick trying to tell me that a win is not a win.

Are you telling me my rings are not rings?

Your rings are definitely rings because contrived bull**** stats -- WAR, VORP, DORK --are your stock in trade.

 

[RagingCanuck]

Yes, they are different. Wins, as currently determined on stat sheets for players, are considered to be 100% the responsibility of the pitcher. WAR proportions them out to different positions based on their contributions.

Saber babble.

But not as bad as Rick trying to tell me that a win is not a win.

True or false: a baseball team winning a game is 100% dependent on the pitcher.

 

[service_gamer]

Yes, they are different. Wins, as currently determined on stat sheets for players, are considered to be 100% the responsibility of the pitcher. WAR proportions them out to different positions based on their contributions.

Saber babble.

But not as bad as Rick trying to tell me that a win is not a win.

Are you telling me my rings are not rings?

I feel like you're turning this discussion into an ill-conceived Sesame Street segment: 'Kids, sometimes words can be the same, but also different.'

 

[93Devil]

Yes, they are different. Wins, as currently determined on stat sheets for players, are considered to be 100% the responsibility of the pitcher. WAR proportions them out to different positions based on their contributions.

Saber babble.

But not as bad as Rick trying to tell me that a win is not a win.

True or false: a baseball team winning a game is 100% dependent on the pitcher.

I would say at least 75%.

 

[spnited]

Yes, they are different. Wins, as currently determined on stat sheets for players, are considered to be 100% the responsibility of the pitcher. WAR proportions them out to different positions based on their contributions.

Saber babble.

But not as bad as Rick trying to tell me that a win is not a win.

True or false: a baseball team winning a game is 100% dependent on the pitcher.

Where did I say that?


True or false: A baseball team winning a game has nothing to do with the ppitcher?

 

[RagingCanuck]

Yes, they are different. Wins, as currently determined on stat sheets for players, are considered to be 100% the responsibility of the pitcher. WAR proportions them out to different positions based on their contributions.

Saber babble.

But not as bad as Rick trying to tell me that a win is not a win.

True or false: a baseball team winning a game is 100% dependent on the pitcher.

I would say at least 75%.

So, false, then.

 

[RagingCanuck]

Yes, they are different. Wins, as currently determined on stat sheets for players, are considered to be 100% the responsibility of the pitcher. WAR proportions them out to different positions based on their contributions.

Saber babble.

But not as bad as Rick trying to tell me that a win is not a win.

True or false: a baseball team winning a game is 100% dependent on the pitcher.

Where did I say that?

You didn't. But the stat of "Wins" says it's 100%.

True or false: A baseball team winning a game has nothing to do with the ppitcher?

False, of course.

 

[spnited]

Yes, they are different. Wins, as currently determined on stat sheets for players, are considered to be 100% the responsibility of the pitcher. WAR proportions them out to different positions based on their contributions.

Saber babble.

But not as bad as Rick trying to tell me that a win is not a win.

True or false: a baseball team winning a game is 100% dependent on the pitcher.

Where did I say that?

You didn't. But the stat of "Wins" says it's 100%.

True or false: A baseball team winning a game has nothing to do with the ppitcher?

False, of course.

So the picher getting a win means something, right