Kornheiser - just so stoopid

[poindexter]

On his PTI podcast yesterday, Kornheiser and Wilbon championed the "wins" stat for the Cy Young award... there is no beating that dead horse, dinosaurs will never change, they eventually just become extinct.

But then Kornheiser talks about the 'sabermetric statistics, like Quality Starts.."

Really? Even in 2010, you are so dense, that you call Quality Start a 'sabermetric statistic'?

It is really amazing how woefully lacking in knowledge these guys can be.

 

[JC]

Wilbon was worse.

 

[poindexter]

Wilbon was worse.

Wilbon was wild-eyed idiotic talking about 'wins'. Its funny, you can hear the blood boiling.

But for Kornheiser to call 'quality starts' a sabermetric stat.... I mean, how "out of it" can you show yourself to be?

 

[93Devil]

Until quality starts, WHIP and WAR win the division, there will always be a good argument for wins being a the Ace of Spades in the Cy discussion.

 

[JC]

Until quality starts, WHIP and WAR win the division, there will always be a good argument for wins being a the Ace of Spades in the Cy discussion.

Christ, banging head on the wall.

Wins are team stats, not individual. It really isn't that hard to understand.

 

[service_gamer]

Until quality starts, WHIP and WAR win the division, there will always be a good argument for wins being a the Ace of Spades in the Cy discussion.

Christ, banging head on the wall.

Wins are team stats, not individual. It really isn't that hard to understand.

Which is why ****ty, 20-win pitchers are a dime a dozen.

 

[JC]

Until quality starts, WHIP and WAR win the division, there will always be a good argument for wins being a the Ace of Spades in the Cy discussion.

Christ, banging head on the wall.

Wins are team stats, not individual. It really isn't that hard to understand.

Which is why ****ty, 20-win pitchers are a dime a dozen.

Nice straw man.

 

[spnited]

I have two questions:

Have WE beat this dead horse about wins or saberstats long enough?
Why does anyone waste their time listening to Kornheiser and Wilbon or any of the ESPN shoutfests? I never did get it.

 

[JC]

I have two questions:

Have WE beat this dead horse about wins or saberstats long enough?
Why does anyone waste their time listening to Kornheiser and Wilbon or any of the ESPN shoutfests? I never did get it.

Correct on both points.

 

[outofplace]

Until quality starts, WHIP and WAR win the division, there will always be a good argument for wins being a the Ace of Spades in the Cy discussion.

Christ, banging head on the wall.

Wins are team stats, not individual. It really isn't that hard to understand.

Beat me to it. Hope your head isn't hurting too much.

 

[shockey]

here's my question about the a.l. cy young race: i know many voters would never vote for a pitcher as mvp "because they have the 'cy young' award. does that mean in their mind the "cy" should go to the other mvp (most valuable pitcher)? ??? ??? ???

by the way, i'd have no issue if hernandez wins. his stats other than wins/losses are insane. but i also can't take issue with the "geezers" who believe won/loss record should be heavily weighted, along with
team success.

 

[outofplace]

here's my question about the a.l. cy young race: i know many voters would never vote for a pitcher as mvp "because they have the 'cy young' award. does that mean in their mind the "cy" should go to the other mvp (most valuable pitcher)? ??? ??? ???

by the way, i'd have no issue if hernandez wins. his stats other than wins/losses are insane. but i also can't take issue with the "geezers" who believe won/loss record should be heavily weighted, along with
team success.

I can. The award is supposed to go to the best pitcher, not the good pitcher on the best team.

 

[spnited]

Here's one problem I have with saber inconsistency.

If wins don't matter, why is WAR (WINS above replacement) so important as a measure of a player's value?

 

[TheSportsPredictor]

Winners win, baby. Shout it from the heavens, PTI!

 

[shockey]

here's my question about the a.l. cy young race: i know many voters would never vote for a pitcher as mvp "because they have the 'cy young' award. does that mean in their mind the "cy" should go to the other mvp (most valuable pitcher)? ??? ??? ???

by the way, i'd have no issue if hernandez wins. his stats other than wins/losses are insane. but i also can't take issue with the "geezers" who believe won/loss record should be heavily weighted, along with
team success.

I can. The award is supposed to go to the best pitcher, not the good pitcher on the best team.

i understand that. which is why i'd have no issue with voting for a pitcher as most valuable player. my point was there are many voters, last time i checked, were on record saying they would never vote for a pitcher as mvp "because they have their own award." does that mean among their cy young criteria is a pitcher's "value" to his team? if so, hernandez won't do as well as sabathia or price, right?

 

[service_gamer]

Until quality starts, WHIP and WAR win the division, there will always be a good argument for wins being a the Ace of Spades in the Cy discussion.

Christ, banging head on the wall.

Wins are team stats, not individual. It really isn't that hard to understand.

Which is why ****ty, 20-win pitchers are a dime a dozen.

Nice straw man.

In all honesty the answer lies in the middle, I just like jerking around the stats-obsessed baseball fans. Still, I bang my head on the wall when people just want to discount wins completely.

 

[Azrael]

To project the whole "wins vs more meaningful measures of a pitcher" thing forward, what happens when a guy like Felix comes to the end of his career and he has fantastic stats - but a W/L record of 140-200?

 

[RagingCanuck]

Here's one problem I have with saber inconsistency.

If wins don't matter, why is WAR (WINS above replacement) so important as a measure of a player's value?

It's not that wins aren't important, it's that "Wins" the stat, as currently determined, is not a good way of evaluating a pitcher.

 

[RickStain]

In all honesty the answer lies in the middle, I just like jerking around the stats-obsessed baseball fans. Still, I bang my head on the wall when people just want to discount wins completely.

A Pitching Win has two components: Things the pitcher does, things the rest of the team does.

We have stats that are readily available that easily measure both, so there's no reason to combine the two.

 

[RickStain]

Until quality starts, WHIP and WAR win the division, there will always be a good argument for wins being a the Ace of Spades in the Cy discussion.

A literate person should be aware of the existence of words that sound the same, are spelled the same, but having different meanings.

Wins (in the standings) and wins (in pitcher's record) are two entirely different statistics. They just share the same name.