Kiss today goodbye ...

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Armchair_QB said:
boundforboston said:
Why not have different styles for online and print? You can do things differently online than print. Unfortunately, my shop doesn't realize that.

Well, that's just too damn much work. Might have to hire another copy editor.

Or not "furlough" all of them...

There's truth in that. If you have a full-time online editor, that's one thing. If it's one of these places where the copy desk just uploads content to the web at the end of the night, it's less likely. Just extra time devoted to details at the end of a shift that is already too long to begin with.
 
boundforboston said:
How long does it take to change "today" to "Friday?" Also, you could just post as is and then update online version after finishing your pages.

How long does it take to look through every story for style changes?
 
Riptide said:
boundforboston said:
How long does it take to change "today" to "Friday?" Also, you could just post as is and then update online version after finishing your pages.

How long does it take to look through every story for style changes?
...and who's paying for it?
 
"Today" only exists in our print product. Online, it's day of the week, as should be. There's a Matt Lauer joke here somewhere, but can't bring myself to even try.
 
mediaguy said:
"Today" only exists in our print product. Online, it's day of the week, as should be. There's a Matt Lauer joke here somewhere, but can't bring myself to even try.

And you're sure it never gets left in online?

I see it regularly on almost every newspaper website I visit.
 
Versatile, I should say it's meant to never be "today" online. In theory, if not in constant practice ...
 
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Evil ... Thy name is Orville Redenbacher!! said:
It's so hard to say goodbye to Yesterday.

Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away. Now it looks as though they're here to stay.
 
mediaguy said:
Versatile, I should say it's meant to never be "today" online. In theory, if not in constant practice ...

That's the problem. Having different styles for online and print creates unnecessary double work. Unnecessary double work is stupid.
 
Versatile said:
mediaguy said:
Versatile, I should say it's meant to never be "today" online. In theory, if not in constant practice ...

That's the problem. Having different styles for online and print creates unnecessary double work. Unnecessary double work is stupid.

Some people think saying today in a newspaper rather than Sunday is better and some don't. To each his own.
 
Versatile said:
mediaguy said:
Versatile, I should say it's meant to never be "today" online. In theory, if not in constant practice ...

That's the problem. Having different styles for online and print creates unnecessary double work. Unnecessary double work is stupid.

And the editing will be hit-and-miss. So the styles will be mixed. Not good.
 
boundforboston said:
Versatile said:
mediaguy said:
Versatile, I should say it's meant to never be "today" online. In theory, if not in constant practice ...

That's the problem. Having different styles for online and print creates unnecessary double work. Unnecessary double work is stupid.

Some people think saying today in a newspaper rather than Sunday is better and some don't. To each his own.

That's not a logical response. One of those groups of people is the cause for widespread stylistic inconsistency in Web content and double-work for editors. How does preferring to see "today" justify that?
 
Not arguing (yet). But ...

What would your rule be for places that have two products -- a print newspaper and a 24/7 website? I mean, they are different products. That what the Web is the Future people have been telling us for a decade. Or aren't they?

I'll hang up and listen (but I may call again).
 
I have no idea how you drew that conclusion. I want to strike today from all platforms.
 
Versatile said:
Do you think it's a bad thing for readers, or just not a good thing?

Honestly, I haven't given it much thought until this thread. The last time I worked at a daily newspaper that also had a website was nearly five years ago. My most recent job was at a web-only place that had this rule in its style guide:

Understanding we're read all over the world, and our today could be somebody's yesterday, always write the day of the week. Exception: Cover stories based on events happening now.

So I haven't had to have an opinion on this for five years. I won't pretend to be 100 percent certain on much of the conversation because, frankly, I've grown weary of how many people on this board are 100 percent certain about everything. But I do wonder. I think our industry has a history of thinking readers read and think like we do, and they don't.

I do think if you're Joe Reader and have been reading a daily newspaper for 20, 30, maybe 40 years, you're accustomed to seeing "today" in a Monday paper about something happening on the day of publication. It's the way you're conditioned to read. Chances are if you see a "Monday" reference in the Monday paper, you think it's about the previous Monday, or the next, or that someone messed up.

I'm just asking -- not 100 percent certain, mind you -- but isn't it possible longtime readers (and by that I mean readers) would find it jarring and a tad confusing to suddenly never see "today" in print? To instead see the day of the week even if it's that day? And while we're at it, are we headed toward using days + dates a lot more? The first PTA meeting of the school year is scheduled for 7:30 p.m. Monday, Aug. 26. We'd never have published that at the daily newspapers I've worked at, but if we're going all-Monday all the time, isn't that inevitable?

We also seem to be talking about places where stories are written and edited for print, then tweaked for the web after print deadline. More of my friends work instead at places where stories are written for the web first, THEN edited after going live, then reworked or edited for print last. Lots of variables here. And from what I've seen of web writing, it does not always make for a good read in print, especially not the next morning. Not every place has the personnel to crank out distinctly different versions for web and print, so there's that. And as we've discussed many times on here, there's no one-size-fits-all solution. What works at The New York Times isn't necessarily the right approach for the Podunk Occasional.

But I'm rambling. To answer your question, I'm not sure, but I think it would be bad for readers -- at the very least, an awkward adjustment. Still mulling. It's an issue that hasn't been on my radar in a long time. And the last time I seriously considered it, I actually believed grammar and style and copy editing had a place -- a future -- in the business. Whatever our business is now, I'm no longer as sure anymore.

So there's my answer, with all of those qualifiers dropped into it.
 
I appreciate your eloquent response. But it's more jarring to read "today" online when referring to "tomorrow" than to read the day of the week in print.

It's that simple. Until someone creates a macro that automatically changes "today" to the day of the week online, human error needs to be accounted for.
 
I don't think the macro would help, because in my experience, even a simple change from today to Monday can involve more contextual changes. A macro would not take care of that. Some things will always need humans.

Can't say I see "today" online when it means "tomorrow" as often as you do, but if you see it often, I can understand your take.
 

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