Israel has a "right to defend itself" but...

[Billy Monday]

does it not seem like they're trying kill a few roaches by swinging a wrecking ball at the whole building?

Those Lebanese people didn't do anything.

 

[Songbird]

When the Lebanese realize this is all because of Hezbollah, and they get angry enough to flush out and help kill Hezbollah, maybe the carnage will end.

 

[Flying Headbutt]

Being that Iran and Syria are behind this all, and continue to profess their desire to destroy Israel, I say we let them do as they need to. This was unprovoked attempt at war. Weaken Hezbollah enough and Lebanon can gain control of that area.

 

[BTExpress]

Those Lebanese people didn't do anything. 

That's Israel's point, sort of.

Those Lebanese people didn't do anything . . . to stop a terrorist organization from controlling much of their country.

Israel is telling Lebanon: "DO SOMETHING about Hezbollah."

It's like this:

Lebanon is a guy whose wife, Hezbollah, is racking up huge gambling debts.

Israel is the loan shark who is going to break every bone in Lebanon's body until it divorces  Hezbollah.

 

[HejiraHenry]

No buts.

This whole "disproportionate response" meme ignores just about all of human history and how wars are won. Sometimes, good and innocent people will die.

I am reminded of the concern before the Normandy invasion that a certain number of French civilians were sure to be killed as the Allies invaded to drive out the Germans. The Free French response: It's better to have some civilians killed in this cause than to have all of our citizens enslaved. Powerful stuff, and proof that some French people, at one time, had the right stuff.

 

[FileNotFound]

Israel has a right to defend itself. Period.

 

[Point of Order]

Israel has a right to defend itself. Period.

That don't make what they're doing a good idea, necessarily.

 

[Columbo]

Israel has a right to defend itself. Period.

That don't make what they're doing a good idea, necessarily. 

Islam is a peaceful religion, Israel is in no danger.

 

[Point of Order]

Israel has a right to defend itself. Period.

That don't make what they're doing a good idea, necessarily.

Islam is a peaceful religion, Israel is in no danger.

Passion of The Christ?

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

No buts.

This whole "disproportionate response" meme ignores just about all of human history and how wars are won. Sometimes, good and innocent people will die.

I am reminded of the concern before the Normandy invasion that a certain number of French civilians were sure to be killed as the Allies invaded to drive out the Germans. The Free French response: It's better to have some civilians killed in this cause than to have all of our citizens enslaved. Powerful stuff, and proof that some French people, at one time, had the right stuff.

It's never "OK" for good innocent people to die.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Please, can we leave the WWII analogies out of things, They do not apply, not now and not ever.
Anybody who thinks that the Maronite Christian population is going to blame Hezbollah for the Israeli bombs that are killing them seriously doesn't understand human nature.
And the 10-1 civilian casualty rate is still waiting for an explanation.
This is like blowing up the Bronx to get rid of the Gambinos, or what Wilson Goode did in Philly, except with F-18s and cluster bombs.

 

[Columbo]

Please, can we leave the WWII analogies out of things, They do not apply, not now and not ever.
Anybody who thinks that the Maronite Christian population is going to blame Hezbollah for the Israeli bombs that are killing them seriously doesn't understand human nature.
And the 10-1 civilian casualty rate is still waiting for an explanation.
This is like blowing up the Bronx to get rid of the Gambinos, or what Wilson Goode did in Philly, except with F-18s and cluster bombs.

Wilson Goode... great grab

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

Please, can we leave the WWII analogies out of things, They do not apply, not now and not ever.
Anybody who thinks that the Maronite Christian population is going to blame Hezbollah for the Israeli bombs that are killing them seriously doesn't understand human nature.
And the 10-1 civilian casualty rate is still waiting for an explanation.
This is like blowing up the Bronx to get rid of the Gambinos, or what Wilson Goode did in Philly, except with F-18s and cluster bombs.

When Hezbollah captured Israel soldiers, Israel should've tried to negotiate with Lebanon to try to figure things out. It's as simple as that. Because whatever the outcome, it would come in the favor of Israel because if both countries came up to an agreement, then this would be over. If they went and talked and nothing was solved, Lebanon would REALLY look like the bad egg.

 

[DyePack]

No buts.

This whole "disproportionate response" meme ignores just about all of human history and how wars are won. Sometimes, good and innocent people will die.

I am reminded of the concern before the Normandy invasion that a certain number of French civilians were sure to be killed as the Allies invaded to drive out the Germans. The Free French response: It's better to have some civilians killed in this cause than to have all of our citizens enslaved. Powerful stuff, and proof that some French people, at one time, had the right stuff.

Pube and others here like the Vichy France approach, though: Surrender and hope for mercy.

 

[DyePack]

Please, can we leave the WWII analogies out of things, They do not apply, not now and not ever.
Anybody who thinks that the Maronite Christian population is going to blame Hezbollah for the Israeli bombs that are killing them seriously doesn't understand human nature.
And the 10-1 civilian casualty rate is still waiting for an explanation.
This is like blowing up the Bronx to get rid of the Gambinos, or what Wilson Goode did in Philly, except with F-18s and cluster bombs.

When Hezbollah captured Israel soldiers, Israel should've tried to negotiate with Lebanon to try to figure things out. It's as simple as that. Because whatever the outcome, it would come in the favor of Israel because if both countries came up to an agreement, then this would be over. If they went and talked and nothing was solved, Lebanon would REALLY look like the bad egg.

Negotiating with terrorists: The Vichy France approach.

 

[Beach_Bum]

The way I read it, Israel has to do it this way if they are serious about ending the threat (which, of course, they are). They have to blow out the bridges, etc. to disrupt Hezbollah's ability to escape and communicate and to disrupt the ability of others from outside the country to join in the fighting. THey shell them, cut them off, put them under seige, and then go kill them.

 

[TigerVols]

Heard this from a colleague who worked in Israel until recently. He was told this by an Israeli General over dinner a while back:

"If Israel lays down all our weapons, we would be removed from the face of the Earth within a week. If the Arabs laid down their weapons, there would be peace in the Middle East for years to come."


I believe him.

I'm a left-wing pacifist especially when it comes to the war in Iraq, but I've always considered the Israeli/Arab conflict to be a Cowboys and Indians thing. Eventually, the Cowboys can only win by killing off most of the Indians and all but enslaving the rest. In other words, there will not be peace in that part of the world until the democracies (i.e. Israel, and even India further east) once and for all completely destroy their enemies. We have peace in Europe only becase we were willing to kill a lot of innocent civilians and bomb entire cities to wipe away the Nazis. Those left behind have lived in peace for 60 years. The same will have to be done in the Middle East. The sooner the Western democracies realize this, the better.

 

[PopeDirkBenedict]

Please, can we leave the WWII analogies out of things, They do not apply, not now and not ever.
Anybody who thinks that the Maronite Christian population is going to blame Hezbollah for the Israeli bombs that are killing them seriously doesn't understand human nature.
And the 10-1 civilian casualty rate is still waiting for an explanation.
This is like blowing up the Bronx to get rid of the Gambinos, or what Wilson Goode did in Philly, except with F-18s and cluster bombs.

Why does the 10-1 need an explanation? Just because Hezbollah's aim isn't as good as the Israelis is no reason to hold that against Israel. Yes, civilians who have no association with Hezbollah have been killed and that is a tragedy. But Israel has aimed the majority of its attacks against infrastructure and has warned civilians in advance. By comparison, Hezbollah has been lobbing bombs indiscriminately at Israeli towns hoping to kill civilians. Israel is actually quite lucky considering that on Sunday, Hezbollah used 10 much more powerful missles with only one making a direct hit (that one killed eight). Hezbollah has launched over 700 missiles and rockets, aiming them at the Israeli populace. Their incompetence does not negate their intent.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Actuallly, some of those left behind lived under a boot for 50 years, but...
This is not World War III. (And it's really not WWII; the French, for example, were willing to take civilian casualties in order to get their country back. The Lebanese, I guarantee you, see this as invasion, not liberation.) This is one country with an advanced military blowing the hell out of an entire country because it had been targeted by a group of people on its southern borders. Do all of you who are hankering for a general war -- Iran! Syria! -- seriously want to discuss what's going to happen to the 130K US troops that are in Iraq now as soons a that war kicks off? "You have created a desert and call it peace" is the best definition of moral insanity I ever heard, and it's about 5000 years old.
And Your Holiness -- do you honestly believe that the only reason for that 10-1 ratio is that the Israelis are being careful? What you call "infrastructure" is what keeps people -- Muslim and Christian -- alive in God's own worst climate. And, no, I do not consider someone who declines to heed an Israeli order to leave their home to be a "tragic " -- yeah, right -- victim of his own mistakes.

 

[Chuck~Taylor]

Please, can we leave the WWII analogies out of things, They do not apply, not now and not ever.
Anybody who thinks that the Maronite Christian population is going to blame Hezbollah for the Israeli bombs that are killing them seriously doesn't understand human nature.
And the 10-1 civilian casualty rate is still waiting for an explanation.
This is like blowing up the Bronx to get rid of the Gambinos, or what Wilson Goode did in Philly, except with F-18s and cluster bombs.

When Hezbollah captured Israel soldiers, Israel should've tried to negotiate with Lebanon to try to figure things out. It's as simple as that. Because whatever the outcome, it would come in the favor of Israel because if both countries came up to an agreement, then this would be over. If they went and talked and nothing was solved, Lebanon would REALLY look like the bad egg.

Negotiating with terrorists: The Vichy France approach.

Not with Hezbollah, with the Lebanon. But after all of this, I'm still more afraid of Al Qaeda then Hezbollah. And no, I don't think that they are allies. It's another Saddam and Osama situation. If they were in the same room, they would kill each other. ::) Extremists are crazy.