How Editors Judge What Job Applicants Bring 2 The Table

[Barsuk]

If you don't want the job, don't do what they ask. If you do, write yourself an essay and come up with four ideas.

Does it take a little extra effort? Sure. But it stands to reason the guy who quibbles over assignments that would take, at best, two hours to fulfill is not likely to do the really mundane stuff (open practices/recruiting/source-building).

And yet, you'd find that, once I'm in a job, I quibble over very, very little in terms of workload demands or time requirements.

These requirements are not for the mundane stuff. They're asking for enterprise story ideas -- something I consider a strong suit for me -- that, when done in the manner they're suggesting and the manner in which they should be done, that would typically take much longer than two hours to come up with, research, and write, particularly if you have not worked on the beat already.

I might accept this requirement if it were for one such idea and the work involved. But four, without a strong sense that I'm the one to be hired? No way. Not with the clips I have that would already prove I have what they want in terms of creativity and reporting skills.

They're not asking for the essay or the story ideas/research and, essentially, the writing of the four stories. They're asking for both/all of it, supposedly from a slew of candidates.

Just about all this is going to do is slow down the selection process considerably -- unless the field has already been whittled down to two or three already, and they're attempting to make that last tough call by making comparisons of this stuff. But that doesn't appear to be the case.

I'm not sure where you got the notion they're asking candidates to <i>write</i> four enterprise stories. They want story ideas, with a list of potential sources for those ideas. Is it a bit much to ask in the initial stages of a job search? Probably. But a handful of folks here are blowing it way out of proportion.

 

[big green wahoo]

I've been through several interview processes, both where I did and didn't get the job. At one shop, I did personal interviews with nine people in one day. As in sit-down and be grilled interviews. And I was fine with that.

I've never done it, but I'd be fine with being brought in and sent out to do a story or two. And I'd even be willing to pay my own way to an interview if I really wanted the job and the paper couldn't or wouldn't do it.

But to apparently not even read my clips and send me back the request to do an essay, etc? I guess my past experience and best stories aren't worth anything to you. And that's what turned me off.

 

[alleyallen]

My test to aspiring sports writing applicants:

1. Better writer: HST, Hemingway or Wolfe? Convince me in 400 words.

2. More socially significant: Pearl Jam or Nirvana? Compare and contrast in 325 words.

3. Your favorite Ramone and why. 200 words.

4. Biggest fraud: Lupica, Notre Dame football or Kelvin Sampson? 600 words

5. Who wins, Godzilla or Mothra? 150 words.

6. Bushmills or Jameson's? No limit.

7. Donna Martin. Hit it or not? 300 words.

8. Worst sports franchise ever - Arizona Cardinals, LA Clippers, Tampa Bay Devil Rays? 250 words.

9. Most honest/relevant - Chuck D., Obama or Kanye? 420 words

10. Bonus question: Describe Otto Graham? 20 words or less

lono, not sure I could pass your test. I know absolutely ZIP about the Ramones, other than they appeared on the Simpsons. And I've never been a fan of Bushmills or Jameson's, although from a literary perspective, I'd say Bushmills.

 

[WriteThinking]

I'm not sure where you got the notion they're asking candidates to <i>write</i> four enterprise stories. They want story ideas, with a list of potential sources for those ideas. Is it a bit much to ask in the initial stages of a job search? Probably. But a handful of folks here are blowing it way out of proportion.

Yes, it's a bit much.

If they're asking for enterprise ideas -- the best ones people can find/come up with -- and asking for the sources, and an explanation of why you'd want those sources, that entails going into your analysis of the situation, what you'd ask the source, and what they'd likely offer in terms of information and perspective.

If you do that with several sources per story, I'd call that, pretty much researching, sourcing and writing the stories. Or all but that, if I am, indeed, reading too much into things.

I don't mean to blow it out of proportion. I guess I just think these requirements are out of proportion, too. As I wrote in my first post, it just strikes me as poor management.

And that always bothers me. I sense that the paper may be/is trying to get a really good-quality candidate, and I would give them credit for that.

I just think they may be cutting off their noses to spite their own faces by making this more complicated than it needs to be to gain that same end. I hate to see that, and would hate for people to have to go through that, unnecessarily.

But you're right in that I've said enough on the subject, so OK, I'll shut up now. :)

 

[black dude with pompano]

Ugh.

Big Green, I agree with you. No matter how bad off I was, I would hope I had too much self-respect to grovel for a crappy Gannett job.

But be aware that there are many people (including, probably, a younger version of myself) that are happy to do so.

 

[forever_town]

I can see where some of these requirements are coming from to an extent. If I were hiring for a more experienced reporter, I'd like to see evidence that the clips I have aren't heavily edited, and that the work located therein really is the reporter without said heavy editing.

I'd also like to see a sense that a reporter I hire can think for himself or herself. Questions such as developing an enterprise story idea and listing sources gives me an idea of the thought process behind developing such a story. I want someone who can show initiative and can generate better story ideas than I can assign.

At my first journalism job, I was initially the third person when the company was going to hire two. The managing editor explicitly told me where I was in the pecking order and also e-mailed me detailed feedback for future interviews. Then he called me a couple of days later and sent me the reporting test, which was to write a story based on information he'd sent. It had to be done in an hour, so that took up my entire lunch break. A couple of hours later, I had the job offer.

And lono, no way in Hell I could ever pass your test. I'm pretty much uninterested in grunge rock.

 

[Barsuk]

Ugh.

Big Green, I agree with you. No matter how bad off I was, I would hope I had too much self-respect to grovel for a crappy Gannett job.

But be aware that there are many people (including, probably, a younger version of myself) that are happy to do so.

That's the one thing I think the folks in Springfield certainly will achieve with this method -- they know they'll get someone who <i>really</i> wants that job, because anyone who is lukewarm to it won't jump through those hoops.

 

[awriter]

Under different circumstances and with some personal projects I've got going on right now out of the way, I would be very interested in this job myself, and I'm positive I'm qualified.

Like big green wahoo, however, I think these requests -- involving so many separate assignments/ideas -- are a bit over-the-top in terms of requirements.

To me, it indicates an inability or an unwillingness to make a decision, and strikes me as a somewhat transparent, easy and convenient way to collect story ideas for the paper's own future use -- whether any or all of these applicants are hired, or not.

Writing one short essay, or covering something -- fully, with a game story, notebook, and whatever news, plus having them think up and bring back one good story idea out of it, if that's so desired -- would be reasonable, much like a copy-editing or management test.

But this? Too much to ask of people who, frankly, don't even work for you yet, and may never do so. If there is anybody who has sent in even reasonably good cover letters and clips, and you've done your interviews and checked out references, and the like, then you ought to be well on your way to making good assessments of people and cutting down the field.

If you're not, maybe you shouldn't be the one fortunate enough to be doing the hiring and decision-making.

I'm sorry, but that's my take on it.

Agreed. One part of the ad that got me was this: "Too many clips from applicants thus far have been soft features or game stories. Our readers deserve more. How can you prove that you can do the work required?"
My reaction: A) File those clips in the trash can; B) My clips, resume, cover letter and references should provide a clue as to whether I can do the job.

 

[spup1122]

Listen kids, the beat in question is by far the biggest beat in town. So of course they're going to want you to jump through hoops to get it. If you're going to complain about the requirements to even apply for the beat, then don't apply, but the women's beat is the biggest beat in town. So expect hell. Expect readers jumping down your throat if you do a bad job. Expect to jump through hoops to get the job and quit bitching.

It's becoming a pattern with some on here to complain about the requirements to apply or interview for jobs. Get over it. This business is tough and more tough times are ahead. Let someone who wants to work for a job work for it, if you're not willing.

 

[black dude with pompano]

Listen kids, the beat in question is by far the biggest beat in town. So of course they're going to want you to jump through hoops to get it. If you're going to complain about the requirements to even apply for the beat, then don't apply, but the women's beat is the biggest beat in town. So expect hell. Expect readers jumping down your throat if you do a bad job. Expect to jump through hoops to get the job and quit bitching.

It's becoming a pattern with some on here to complain about the requirements to apply or interview for jobs. Get over it. This business is tough and more tough times are ahead. Let someone who wants to work for a job work for it, if you're not willing.

You're on the fast track for management.

Come on, this isn't the Yankees beat for the Daily News. I'm all for properly vetting candidates, but this seems more like an editor on a power trip.

 

[Birdscribe]

Spup, you're overall premise couldn't be more correct, especially on the essay part. There's nothing unrealistic about that at all.

That said, it is a bit unrealistic and more than a bit reeking of a fishing expedition to expect you to not only come up with four enterprise stories, but provide sources for those stories.

What kind of message does that send to the unsuccessful applicants? We're not going to hire you, but these story ideas are great!

Ben Hecht's take is dead-on nails. I'd go thermonuclear if I saw one of those in print.

 

[spup1122]

But in Springfield, Mo., this is the Yankees beat. If you did some research on what drives Springfield's fans, you'd see that it's the Lady Bears, prep sports, then the men's team and Springfield Cardinals.

 

[spup1122]

Spup, you're overall premise couldn't be more correct, especially on the essay part. There's nothing unrealistic about that at all.

That said, it is a bit unrealistic and more than a bit reeking of a fishing expedition to expect you to not only come up with four enterprise stories, but provide sources for those stories.

What kind of message does that send to the unsuccessful applicants? We're not going to hire you, but these story ideas are great!

Ben Hecht's take is dead-on nails. I'd go thermonuclear if I saw one of those in print.

I think they'll weed out quite a few candidates with bad ideas. When I read it, I didn't read that they'd be writing the stories. They'd be giving them ideas with sources. It's fair for anyone to ask them to do some research on the team. If I were hiring someone and they came in without a clue to who coaches, trainers, experts, etc. in town were, I'd be pretty angry because we'd be behind and having to teach this new person who everyone is.

And the SID at Missouri State is a great guy, but he can be a bit gruff. It's going to take an aggressive person with initiative to get through the exterior and develop the relationship. A little reaching out prior to the interview wouldn't hurt anything, especially if you're trying to learn more about Missouri State athletics -- a place he knows better than anyone and loves.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

Who IS this editor?

From what sainted mount did he descend?


And I LOVE lono's test. Love it.

 

[Birdscribe]

I love Lono's test as well.

Joey Ramone would be a no-brainer. The guy put together a remarkable stock portfolio and could discuss issues ranging from P/E ratios to EU happenings.

So is Bushmills, which is the ONLY way to make a good Irish Coffee.

And Spup, it's a given that nobody's writing a story. But to ask for story ideas and a complete list of sources is a fishing expedition.

 

[WriteThinking]

Who IS this editor?

I believe Don Wyatt is the executive editor, Pam Clark the sports editor.

 

[big green wahoo]

Perhaps spup IS Don Wyatt. ;D

Gotta go slack off some more. Rest up for my next set of complaints in this tough, tough business that is unforgiving of my ilk.

 

[spup1122]

I'm not Don Wyatt. I've just seen you complain twice in two weeks that you can't get an interview because your driving record wasn't good enough and now that you have to do some extra work. God forbid I see a pattern.

 

[Shark_Juumper]

Once was in email/phone interviews for a feature editor position. I critiqued the section, gave my thoughts on what I would do with the section. Included in my emails was a description of a what I would look for in a designer/copy editor if I were hiring. Didn't get the job. They promoted from within. Fine. Two months later the paper has an opening for a features designer. Lifted wholesale from my emails was my five sentence description of what I would look for in a features designer.

 

[black dude with pompano]

Spup, you're overall premise couldn't be more correct, especially on the essay part. There's nothing unrealistic about that at all.

That said, it is a bit unrealistic and more than a bit reeking of a fishing expedition to expect you to not only come up with four enterprise stories, but provide sources for those stories.

What kind of message does that send to the unsuccessful applicants? We're not going to hire you, but these story ideas are great!

Ben Hecht's take is dead-on nails. I'd go thermonuclear if I saw one of those in print.

I think they'll weed out quite a few candidates with bad ideas. When I read it, I didn't read that they'd be writing the stories. They'd be giving them ideas with sources. It's fair for anyone to ask them to do some research on the team. If I were hiring someone and they came in without a clue to who coaches, trainers, experts, etc. in town were, I'd be pretty angry because we'd be behind and having to teach this new person who everyone is.

And the SID at Missouri State is a great guy, but he can be a bit gruff. It's going to take an aggressive person with initiative to get through the exterior and develop the relationship. A little reaching out prior to the interview wouldn't hurt anything, especially if you're trying to learn more about Missouri State athletics -- a place he knows better than anyone and loves.

Wait a minute. To apply -- not even interview -- for a job (a bad job, at that), you have to know "coaches, trainers, experts in town." That's hilarious.