History Will Beat Them With A Stick

[Fenian_Bastard]

I am now typing this for the second time in my life.
John Ashcroft was the sensible one.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/04/hbc-90002830

 

[Fudgie the Whale]

I am now typing this for the second time in my life.
John Ashcroft was the sensible one.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/04/hbc-90002830

On second thought, maybe Bush should go to Beijing.

 

[forever_town]

As long as he takes Cheney with him.

 

[zeke12]

History is waiting with long knives.

 

[forever_town]

And the cat-o'-nine-tails.

 

[Ace]

The Bush Administration is anti-Darwin.

Instead of survival of the fittest, we get the survival of the dim-wittedest.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

The Club of Greed.

 

[Grimace]

I am now typing this for the second time in my life.
John Ashcroft was the sensible one.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/04/hbc-90002830

On second thought, maybe Bush should go to Beijing.

I get what you're saying. Technically, he'd be a hypocrite if he boycotted to protest human rights violations.

Is it January yet?

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

I'm not sure this stuff isn't coming out because they WANT it to.
The country's against the war, and against Fredo, but this gets them talking about the eeeev iillllll Mooslims! and 24 and how we're all going to die in our beds.
There have never been a consensus against torture in this country that I've ever seen.

 

[zeke12]

I'm not sure this stuff isn't coming out because they WANT it to.
The country's against the war, and against Fredo, but this gets them talking about the eeeev iillllll Mooslims! and 24 and how we're all going to die in our beds.
There have never been a consensus against torture in this country that I've ever seen.

At 28-32 percent, what do you have to lose?

 

[JR]

The country's against the war, and against Fredo, but this gets them talking about the eeeev iillllll Mooslims! and 24 and how we're all going to die in our beds.

Paging Hondo, paging Hondo.

 

[Ace]

The country's against the war, and against Fredo, but this gets them talking about the eeeev iillllll Mooslims! and 24 and how we're all going to die in our beds.

Paging Hondo, paging Hondo.

He's running out of time!

 

[Joel_Goodsen]

A lot of people from nonmilitary families apparently sign on to this site.

I try and stay clear of these political threads because I don't feel that strongly about most issues to argue about them (and because I'm a moderate and they seem to be dominated by the lunatic fringe on both sides) but I do think that torture of prisoner's of war for the purpose of gaining intelligence is a necessary evil and I can't quite understand why that is so hard for so many people to understand.

If gaining military intelligence is the ultimate goal then, in a war, everything would seem to be fair game. I understand we are a civilized people -- but what part of war is really civilized to begin with? And how can you be civilized when you are fighting against people who don't live by the same set of rules?

I keep hearing about rules of war we must follow but do you really think if our opponents in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan had the methods and means and money, say, to develop biological weapons, they'd hold back?

I don't know how I feel truly about this war in Iraq -- some days I think it is just and necessary -- others I think it is a colossal waste of money and resources and a senseless loss of lives. However, I never waver from this principle -- if we are going to engage in war -- let's do everything in our power to win it.

I have read thread after thread on these forums about this waterboarding issue and the common theme seems to be -- if we don't treat their prisoner's right, they won't treat ours right and we're supposed to be above that. That's a lot of Bull**** -- we aren't dealing with sane and rational people and they don't play by the same rules we are always trying to be bound by -- and more importantly we are trying to win a war, it is life or death, freedom and security -- it should be by any means necessary.

I'm not saying the U.S. is always right, but I certainly would like to think that our government was committed to doing everything possible to win -- and thus end -- this war and these torture tactics -- used within reasonable parameters -- are a part of that.

 

[zeke12]

I'm not saying the U.S. is always right, but I certainly would like to think that our government was committed to doing everything possible to win -- and thus end -- this war and these torture tactics -- used within reasonable parameters -- are a part of that.

We have to torture people to stop torturing people?

Back to the drawing board, Joel.

 

[Ace]

A lot of people from nonmilitary families apparently sign on to this site.

I try and stay clear of these political threads because I don't feel that strongly about most issues to argue about them (and because I'm a moderate and they seem to be dominated by the lunatic fringe on both sides) but I do think that torture of prisoner's of war for the purpose of gaining intelligence is a necessary evil and I can't quite understand why that is so hard for so many people to understand.

If gaining military intelligence is the ultimate goal then, in a war, everything would seem to be fair game. I understand we are a civilized people -- but what part of war is really civilized to begin with? And how can you be civilized when you are fighting against people who don't live by the same set of rules?

I keep hearing about rules of war we must follow but do you really think if our opponents in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan had the methods and means and money, say, to develop biological weapons, they'd hold back?

I don't know how I feel truly about this war in Iraq -- some days I think it is just and necessary -- others I think it is a colossal waste of money and resources and a senseless loss of lives. However, I never waver from this principle -- if we are going to engage in war -- let's do everything in our power to win it.

I have read thread after thread on these forums about this waterboarding issue and the common theme seems to be -- if we don't treat their prisoner's right, they won't treat ours right and we're supposed to be above that. That's a lot of Bull**** -- we aren't dealing with sane and rational people and they don't play by the same rules we are always trying to be bound by -- and more importantly we are trying to win a war, it is life or death, freedom and security -- it should be by any means necessary.

I'm not saying the U.S. is always right, but I certainly would like to think that our government was committed to doing everything possible to win -- and thus end -- this war and these torture tactics -- used within reasonable parameters -- are a part of that.

Perhaps in all your military expertise you could give us a hint of how torture, cruelty and poor treatment of prisoners has helped our cause and made America stronger and less of a target for terrorists?

 

[Joel_Goodsen]

I'm not saying the U.S. is always right, but I certainly would like to think that our government was committed to doing everything possible to win -- and thus end -- this war and these torture tactics -- used within reasonable parameters -- are a part of that.

We have to torture people to stop torturing people?

Back to the drawing board, Joel.

I'm not sure what you are saying?

We have to torture people to gain intelligence. And hopefully in gaining intelligence we will save the lives of U.S. Troups and hopefully in gaining intelligence we will be better equipped to get to the heart of the matter and end the war.

 

[Fudgie the Whale]

A lot of people from nonmilitary families apparently sign on to this site.

I try and stay clear of these political threads because I don't feel that strongly about most issues to argue about them (and because I'm a moderate and they seem to be dominated by the lunatic fringe on both sides) but I do think that torture of prisoner's of war for the purpose of gaining intelligence is a necessary evil and I can't quite understand why that is so hard for so many people to understand.

If gaining military intelligence is the ultimate goal then, in a war, everything would seem to be fair game. I understand we are a civilized people -- but what part of war is really civilized to begin with? And how can you be civilized when you are fighting against people who don't live by the same set of rules?

I keep hearing about rules of war we must follow but do you really think if our opponents in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan had the methods and means and money, say, to develop biological weapons, they'd hold back?

I don't know how I feel truly about this war in Iraq -- some days I think it is just and necessary -- others I think it is a colossal waste of money and resources and a senseless loss of lives. However, I never waver from this principle -- if we are going to engage in war -- let's do everything in our power to win it.

I have read thread after thread on these forums about this waterboarding issue and the common theme seems to be -- if we don't treat their prisoner's right, they won't treat ours right and we're supposed to be above that. That's a lot of Bull**** -- we aren't dealing with sane and rational people and they don't play by the same rules we are always trying to be bound by -- and more importantly we are trying to win a war, it is life or death, freedom and security -- it should be by any means necessary.

I'm not saying the U.S. is always right, but I certainly would like to think that our government was committed to doing everything possible to win -- and thus end -- this war and these torture tactics -- used within reasonable parameters -- are a part of that.

I'm going to go out for a smoke. When I come back, I expect this issue to be resolved.

 

[zeke12]

I'm saying your logic is horribly flawed.

And this:

We have to torture people to gain intelligence.

Is simply not true.

 

[JR]

Well, if you don't mind your government being complcit in or advocating war crimes, I guess there's nothing wrong with torture.

Even from a practical point of view, most interrogation experts (and that does not include Fredo or His Band of Thugs) will tell you it doesn't work.

BTW, Jack Bauer isn't a real CIA operative.

 

[Joel_Goodsen]

Perhaps in all your military expertise you could give us a hint of how torture, cruelty and poor treatment of prisoners has helped our cause and made America stronger and less of a target for terrorists?

Nobody said a word about cruelty and poor treatment of prisoners.

I am talking about specific tactics of interrogation of prisoners of war, nothing more and nothing less.

Further, I'd like you to prove to me that waterboarding is the reason that the rest of the world and particularly those in the Middle East hate us so much.

I mean, are you saying that Bin Laden's decision to bomb NYC and DC on 9/11 was in reaction to a waterboarding incident we haven't read about?