Guillen: Mariotti a "(bleeping) fag"

[85bears]

If you suspend John Rocker, you have to suspend Ozzie Guillen, right?

http://www.suntimes.com/output/couch/cst-spt-greg212.html

 

[trounced]

If you suspend John Rocker, you have to suspend Ozzie Guillen, right?

http://www.suntimes.com/output/couch/cst-spt-greg212.html

Yes, MLB's handling of similar situations suggests he should be suspended. Do I love that he said it about Mariotti? Absolutely.

 

[flaming_mo]

I agree 100 percent.

Baseball has set a precedent of policing the speech of its players, managers and owners. I'm not sure why Ozzie is immune from that.

I also think the Ozzie lovefest is a little tiresome. His team is winning, so everyone is happy. But if things take a turn for the worse, I wonder if that clubhouse will disintegrate. This is baseball. A manager can't show up his players and then expect to have their respect.

 

[Rhody31]

I don't think so. In the context of what he said, he was challenging Mariotti, not insulting him based on his sexuality.Like Guillen said, in Venezuela, the word is different.He wasn't trying to be hurtful to gays; he was insulting Mariotti.
Plus, this is no where near what Rocker said. Rocker went off on everyone, and in the context he used, you knew exactly what he meant. THere was no hiiding it.

 

[leo1]

good column. people toss around that word too easily. growing up, i did, too. then i went to an extremely liberal college and the word fell out of my vocabulary. in the years after college, i still never used it but i heard plenty of people use it in a joking way.

that said, i find it hard to believe guillen's excuse that the word is a compliment in venezuela. if that's true - and i wouldn't take ozzie's word for it - then i'd fine him instead of suspend him because he gets the benefit of the doubt and a warning with the fine not to use it again. if it's bull**** - and even if he goes to wnba games, likes madonna and is going to the gay games and honestly doesnt' have a problem with gays - then he should be suspended for a game or two.

 

[slappy4428]

If I were Ozzie, I'd apologize to gays for putting Mariotti in with them...

 

[Lion_Woods]

I don't think so. In the context of what he said, he was challenging Mariotti, not insulting him based on  his sexuality.Like Guillen said, in  Venezuela, the word is different.He wasn't trying to be hurtful to gays; he was insulting Mariotti.
Plus, this is no where near what Rocker said. Rocker went off on everyone, and in the context he used, you knew exactly what he meant. THere was no hiiding it.

I agree with Rhody to an extent. Guillen should be supsended by the league because what he said was an offensive term. But also I still think the slur at times can have a different meaning. It still doesn't make it right to use it.

 

[flaming_mo]

I don't think so. In the context of what he said, he was challenging Mariotti, not insulting him based on his sexuality.Like Guillen said, in Venezuela, the word is different.He wasn't trying to be hurtful to gays; he was insulting Mariotti.
Plus, this is no where near what Rocker said. Rocker went off on everyone, and in the context he used, you knew exactly what he meant. THere was no hiiding it.

Totally disagree. I don't believe Rocker even used a slur to refer to gay people, although I believe he did mention AIDS.

The punishment for John Rocker was totally disproportionate to the actual crime. If Rocker hadn't been a boob and a redneck, his comments would be accepted as wry and irreverent observations on life in New York.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

I just kind of question whether this is news...

I was at a practice recently and myself and a bunch of other writers and TV guys were talking about American Idol. The coach overheard it and said, "Are you guys talking about that show? You're a bunch of homos..."

He said it jokingly and about 20 people heard him say it... Was it ever in the paper? Of course not...

By no means am I defending Guillen. It was a stupid and ignorant thing to say. It just makes me a bit uncomfortable that a coach calling a reporter a name, which happens all the time is newsworthy...

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Crap.
Guillen knows what it means. Hiding behind ethnic nuance is cowardly. (And does anybody really believe that "fag" in this context means something different in Venezuela? In a country where "maricon" can get you beaten pretty badly?) If you;re having problems with a columnist, and the first club out of the bag is "fag," when that's the worst thing you can think of to call him, you're John Rocker and your ass is out for a week.
When Al Nipper once got enraged at Steve Fainaru, the worst thing he could think of at the time was to call Fainaru a "Jew." Same thing.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

Ozzie called him a cigarette, huh?

 

[alleyallen]

It's not like Guillen moved to the U.S. three days ago. He's been in America long enough to know fag is not a good term to throw around, regardless of what it means in Venezuela. That's a crap excuse. Take ownership of what you said and take your punishment. And yes, if Rocker was suspended, then Guillen should be as well.

 

[21]

I was with a friend and her two teenage boys, and every sentence those kids spoke to each other used the word fag or homo. "Shut up fag'...'That's mine, you homo...'  My friend made a joke of it to me, like 'that's just how kids talk.'  And she's right, but it doesn't make it right. I couldn't believe she wouldn't tell them to find a different insult.

Those words just seem to slide into the vocabulary without meaning what they actually mean.  If you're a kid in the backseat of the car, it's wrong....and if you're the manager of a major league baseball team talking openly to reporters about another member of the media, it's not only wrong, it's just ****ing stupid.  If I was the owner, I'd suspend him just for embarrassing the organization.

 

[Bob Cook]

Todd Jones just issued a prepared statement saying he doesn't want Mariotti being around him, rubbing it in his face.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

If I was Mariotti, this is what I would want to happen to Guillen.

Nothing.

Maybe a private apology. I don't even think he'd want that since he wasn't there for the rant.

 

[Freelance Hack]

Here's my favorite paragraph of the column:

He also said that he has gay friends, goes to WNBA games, went to the Madonna concert and plans to attend the Gay Games in Chicago.

And a question for those who cover MLB, is Guillen a Latino Billy Martin? That's the sense I get from this column and some other stuff I've read.

 

[85bears]

If I was Mariotti, this is what I would want to happen to Guillen.

Nothing.

Maybe a private apology. I don't even think he'd want that since he wasn't there for the rant.

Are you kidding?

He just got column material for the next month out of this.

Mariotti should be sending Guillen a thank-you card.

 

[nafselon]

I don't think so. In the context of what he said, he was challenging Mariotti, not insulting him based on  his sexuality.Like Guillen said, in  Venezuela, the word is different.He wasn't trying to be hurtful to gays; he was insulting Mariotti.
Plus, this is no where near what Rocker said. Rocker went off on everyone, and in the context he used, you knew exactly what he meant. THere was no hiiding it.

Totally disagree. I don't believe Rocker even used a slur to refer to gay people, although I believe he did mention AIDS.

The punishment for John Rocker was totally disproportionate to the actual crime. If Rocker hadn't been a boob and a redneck, his comments would be accepted as wry and irreverent observations on life in New York.

Rocker's actual quote (one of many): "I would retire first. It's the most hectic, nerve-racking city. Imagine having to take the [Number] 7 train to the ballpark, looking like you're [riding through] Beirut next to some kid with purple hair next to some <b>queer with AIDS</b> right next to some dude who just got out of jail for the fourth time right next to some 20-year-old mom with four kids. It's depressing."

Not sure if queer would be considered a slur or not to be honest.

However, my favorite Rocker quote of all, which shows you how clueless this guy truly was:

“I know Hank [ Aaron ] and Jackie [ Robinson ] took a good deal of crap, but I guarantee it wasn't for six years. I just keep thinking: How much am I supposed to take?”

All that aside...Guillen should be given a seat for a few days, if no other reason than to stop some of his silly tirades.

 

[Ace]

I was with a friend and her two teenage boys, and every sentence those kids spoke to each other used the word fag or homo. "Shut up fag'...'That's mine, you homo...' My friend made a joke of it to me, like 'that's just how kids talk.' And she's right, but it doesn't make it right. I couldn't believe she wouldn't tell them to find a different insult.

Those words just seem to slide into the vocabulary without meaning what they actually mean. If you're a kid in the backseat of the car, it's wrong....and if you're the manager of a major league baseball team talking openly to reporters about another member of the media, it's not only wrong, it's just ****ing stupid. If I was the owner, I'd suspend him just for embarrassing the organization.

21 is right. Calling someone a fag or homo in that context is a typical insult -- kinda like calling them a sissy. It doesn't mean you actually think they are gay.

But it is still wrong. It demeans all gays and makes just being gay an insult. It's like calling someone a ****** and rationalizing it by saying there are "white ******s" too.

That's why when I hear fag or homo or gay from my kids, I tell them we don't use those words as insults. It's not right to talk to people that way and we have friends who are gay and using words that way wrongs them.

But it is pervasive.

 

[leo1]

I was with a friend and her two teenage boys, and every sentence those kids spoke to each other used the word fag or homo. "Shut up fag'...'That's mine, you homo...'  My friend made a joke of it to me, like 'that's just how kids talk.'  And she's right, but it doesn't make it right. I couldn't believe she wouldn't tell them to find a different insult.

Those words just seem to slide into the vocabulary without meaning what they actually mean.  If you're a kid in the backseat of the car, it's wrong....and if you're the manager of a major league baseball team talking openly to reporters about another member of the media, it's not only wrong, it's just ****ing stupid.  If I was the owner, I'd suspend him just for embarrassing the organization.

21 is right. Calling someone a fag or homo in that context is a typical insult -- kinda like calling them a sissy. It doesn't mean you actually think they are gay.

But it is still wrong. It demeans all gays and makes just being gay an insult. It's like calling someone a ****** and rationalizing it by saying there are "white ******s" too.

That's why when I hear fag or homo or gay from my kids, I tell them we don't use those words as insults. It's not right to talk to people that way and we have friends who are gay and using words that way wrongs them.

But it is pervasive.

exactly. it's like calling someone a jew. context is what's important. if someone talking about me (i'm jewish) said "that ****ing jew" that might be technically true but the way you're using it is insulting. if someone said 'he's not taking x-mas off because he's a jew' that wouldn't bother me. if ozzie said 'oh, i saw that fag with his boyfriend the other day. i stopped and we had a couple of beers at a bar. it was fun. those fags are the funnies guys i've ever met.' that's insensitive but the intent is not to insult and he might get the benefit of the doubt.