Did Dennis Kucinich commit treason?

[Uncle.Ruckus]

I'm reading this story and finding it hard to say no. Either way, he's done.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/docs_bush_official_kucinich_offered_to_help_qaddafi_regime_on_ending_us_involvement_in_libya.php?ref=fpblg

 

[sgreenwell]

It's a pretty big jump from "Kucinich met with Libyan officials" to "Kucinich committed treason," no? The guy is very anti-war and was looking for documents that Qaddafi was going to step down before the bombings, which it sounds like he didn't get. As far as him being done, the more worrisome thing to him is probably the redrawing of his district again.

 

[sgreenwell]

Also, the original article is 75 percent about the Bush administration guy, with the bottom portion being about Kucinich wanting documents about the war efforts:

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/08/2011831151258728747.html

 

[Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L)]

Dennis has a very pretty wife.

A very pretty wife.

 

[HanSenSE]

Dennis has a very pretty wife.

A very pretty wife.

It's one of those "Where's Waldo" things, right? Oh, there's Dennis.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Also, the original article is 75 percent about the Bush administration guy, with the bottom portion being about Kucinich wanting documents about the war efforts:

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/08/2011831151258728747.html

Not saying Kucinich committed treason. I have no idea. It sounds like he was trying to work with the Libyans to take a shot at the U.S., though, from the way that is written. It's not like he had evidence of something. He specifically went in asking them to dig up evidence to prove a preconceived notion -- which was anti-American policy. At best that is slimy and dishonest.

As for the "Bush administration guy," honestly I have no dog in this fight in a Republican/Democrat way. I can't stand either of the parties. But from that article, he was well out of government when he was meeting with them, and it's well known that Qaddafi employed American PR firms and lobbyists to try to polish his image here. It sounds like the guy in that article was working as a private citizen, in a PR role for some terrible people. Not the most noble work, but it doesn't smack as badly as the elected official (Kucinich) trying to create an anti-American policy story where he had no evidence of one, by asking the bad guys to give him evidence.

 

[Football_Bat]

I hope someone didn't tear a labrum by reaching so far.

 

[CarltonBanks]

Kucinich is a POS. How anyone can defend him is beyond me. He will rot in hell.

 

[RickStain]

I don't know if it's formally treason, but that seems awfully inappropriate.

 

[Starman]

See "October Surprise," 1980.


http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_cr/h920205-october-clips.htm

 

[DanOregon]

Dude - THAT was Patriotism.

 

[User 4332]

Treason is the only crime that is defined in the Consitution:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

Nothing in the original story amounts to levying war against the U.S., adhering to our enemies or giving them aid and comfort:

On the floor of the intelligence chief's office lay an envelope addressed to Gaddafi's son Saif Al-Islam. Inside, I found what appears to be a summary of a conversation between US congressman Denis Kucinich, who publicly opposed US policy on Libya, and an intermediary for the Libyan leader's son.

It details a request by the congressman for information he needed to lobby US lawmakers to suspend their support for the Libyan National Transitional Council (NTC) and to put an end to NATO airstrikes.

According to the document, Kucinich wanted evidence of corruption within the NTC and, like Welch, any possible links within rebel ranks to al-Qaeda.

The document also lists specific information needed to defend Saif Al-Islam, who is currently on the International Criminal Court's most-wanted list.

If anything it reveals that Kucinich may have been part of an important diplomatic back channel to the Libyan government. Such back channels are a necessity and different members of the U.S. government hold them with every nation that we publicly denounce. If one were exposed, it's embarrassing, but nothing close to treason.

 

[Beaker]

Thank you. ^ It may not look great publicly, but it's hardly treason.

 

[CarltonBanks]

See "October Surprise," 1980.


http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_cr/h920205-october-clips.htm

Not sure what that has to do with what we are talking about...but great post. Now post something about iron ore or fabric softener, that would be about as relevant.

 

[YankeeFan]

Yeah, I agree.

He's a dip****, and he was open to being used, but I don't think it's treason.

If he was offering to work on Libya's behalf in return for a bribe, hang him. But, Dennis is a true believer.

It sounds pretty analogous to the trip McDermott, Bonior, and Thompson took to Iraq prior to our invasion:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8VLH37G2&

 

[YankeeFan]

See "October Surprise," 1980.


http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_cr/h920205-october-clips.htm

I'm not sure what's better, that you believe this bull**** -- on par with birtherism or 9/11 thruther crap -- or that the site compiling it is the Federation of American Scientists.

Post one on-the-record quote from someone with knowledge of some operation please.

 

[black dude with pompano]

I wish there were more Dennis Kuciniches, people who take principled stands against America's perpetual war machine that marches on regardless of whether the man in the Oval Office has an R or a D next to his name

 

[YankeeFan]

I wish there were more Dennis Kuciniches, people who take principled stands against America's perpetual war machine that marches on regardless of whether the man in the Oval Office has an R or a D next to his name

There's plenty of people like that.

Didn't you see the protests that sprang up around the country after we started our campaign in Libya.

The candlelight vigil they had in my town was quite moving.

And, I know some people think that lady -- you know, the one who lost her son in Iraq -- who stood outside of the President's compound in Martha's Vineyard to protest our efforts in Iraq is crazy, and gets a lot more press than she deserves, but I think she's great. Totally principled. Heroic even.

I hope she runs for Congress against Boehner like she's talked about. That will be huge & will get a ton of press for her cause.

 

[Football_Bat]

Here's the not-treason.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/31/libyan-intel-papers-link-ex-diplomat-to-gadhafi-pr/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS

The first set of documents purports to be notes of an Aug. 2 meeting between David Welch, a career U.S. diplomat who negotiated the normalization of ties between the United States and Libya during the George W. Bush administration, and two senior regime officials, Abubakr Alzleitny and Mohammed Ahmed Ismail.

The notes show Mr. Welch recommended that the regime funnel any intelligence linking the rebels’ National Transitional Council and al Qaeda to the United States through contacts in Moroccan, Jordanian or Israeli intelligence. The recommendation was part of public relations advice Mr. Welch purportedly gave the regime, according to the documents.

Mr. Welch also urged the Libyan officials to highlight the double standard of the Western nations attacking his regime while Syria escapes intervention.

Funny how a former GOP administration figure would seek to prop up a dictator that a Democratic president is trying to topple. But that has to just be a coincidence.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Here's the not-treason.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/31/libyan-intel-papers-link-ex-diplomat-to-gadhafi-pr/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS

The first set of documents purports to be notes of an Aug. 2 meeting between David Welch, a career U.S. diplomat who negotiated the normalization of ties between the United States and Libya during the George W. Bush administration, and two senior regime officials, Abubakr Alzleitny and Mohammed Ahmed Ismail.

The notes show Mr. Welch recommended that the regime funnel any intelligence linking the rebels’ National Transitional Council and al Qaeda to the United States through contacts in Moroccan, Jordanian or Israeli intelligence. The recommendation was part of public relations advice Mr. Welch purportedly gave the regime, according to the documents.

Mr. Welch also urged the Libyan officials to highlight the double standard of the Western nations attacking his regime while Syria escapes intervention.

Funny how a former GOP administration figure would seek to prop up a dictator that a Democratic president is trying to topple. But that has to just be a coincidence.

Repeated for a second time. This guy Welch is a FORMER diplomat. Those cushy overseas posts you get appointed to because you are connected, until you go through the revolving door back to the private sector. At the time of what they are reporting he was a PRIVATE CITIZEN, not an elected official (he has never been one) or working in any government capacity.

His allegiance at the time, was working for Bechtel, a power engineering company, where he covered the middle east and North Africa -- where Libya is located. He had gotten the job obviously, because he had experience in Libya from his time as a diplomat. But he was acting as a private citizen, not the treasonous government official you are subtly trying to turn it into. Bechtel has an interest in Libya -- a contract with Egypt that had them building and designing power plants near Tripoli.

Is his work noble? Trying to protect the interests of his private company by working with a horrible dictator? Nope. But when he was doing that he had NO U.S. government role.

Dennis Kucinich did. He is an elected official. And unlike Welch, who at least was there doing what he was because of an economic interest of the company he works for, Kucinich went over there fishing, hoping to luck into something he could use to attack U.S. policy.

Not treasonous. But pretty slimy. And not on par with that guy Welch, who is OUT OF GOVERNMENT.