Curious quote

[sirvaliantbrown]

From SI's piece on black golfing pioneer Lee Elder: "It's hard to explain what it was like for Lee," says Gary Player, who as apartheid reigned in 1971, boldly invited Elder to play in the South African PGA Championship. Lee accepted. "How do you explain," asks Player, "what it was like being a Jew during the war?"

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1727848,00.html

"The war"? Like...the Second World War? In which six million Jews were massacred?

I don't care very much, but that's one seriously bad analogy right there.

 

[Barsuk]

I think this warrants a "W. JW." if anything ever did. Jesus, Gary.

 

[Grimace]

From SI's piece on black golfing pioneer Lee Elder: "It's hard to explain what it was like for Lee," says Gary Player, who as apartheid reigned in 1971, boldly invited Elder to play in the South African PGA Championship. Lee accepted. "How do you explain," asks Player, "what it was like being a Jew during the war?"

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1727848,00.html

"The war"? Like...the Second World War? In which six million Jews were massacred?

I don't care very much, but that's one seriously bad analogy right there.

I'm pretty sure he meant Greneda.

A good rule of thumb, though, is never make an analogy involving Jews, World War II, Nazis and, well, anything.

 

[alleyallen]

I think this warrants a "W. JW." if anything ever did. Jesus, Gary.

W. JW? Not sure I understand what that means.

 

[Barsuk]

Wow. Just wow. It's the new buzzphrase here at SportsJournalists.com. ;D

 

[alleyallen]

Wow. Just wow. It's the new buzzphrase here at SportsJournalists.com. ;D

Hmmm...never seen it listed that way. Has it been added to the SportsJournalists.com Style Guide thread?

 

[Barsuk]

Wow. Just wow. It's the new buzzphrase here at SportsJournalists.com. ;D

Hmmm...never seen it listed that way. Has it been added to the SportsJournalists.com Style Guide thread?

If not, it should be. Diabeetus to the courtesy phone, por favor.

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

From SI's piece on black golfing pioneer Lee Elder: "It's hard to explain what it was like for Lee," says Gary Player, who as apartheid reigned in 1971, boldly invited Elder to play in the South African PGA Championship. Lee accepted. "How do you explain," asks Player, "what it was like being a Jew during the war?"

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1727848,00.html

"The war"? Like...the Second World War? In which six million Jews were massacred?

I don't care very much, but that's one seriously bad analogy right there.

Maybe it's not as bad an analogy as it is a lack of awareness of the depth of the South African atrocities.

 

[Rumpleforeskin]

Player said it and the writer decided it would add to the context of the story. It passed through his mind, the editor's mind and the publisher's mind and then into the minds of the readers. If someone thought it was wrong, it would have not run in the story. Maybe it's a jumbled analogy, but it's a good enough quote to get in there.

 

[sirvaliantbrown]

From SI's piece on black golfing pioneer Lee Elder: "It's hard to explain what it was like for Lee," says Gary Player, who as apartheid reigned in 1971, boldly invited Elder to play in the South African PGA Championship. Lee accepted. "How do you explain," asks Player, "what it was like being a Jew during the war?"

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1727848,00.html

"The war"? Like...the Second World War? In which six million Jews were massacred?

I don't care very much, but that's one seriously bad analogy right there.

Maybe it's not as bad an analogy as it is a lack of awareness of the depth of the South African atrocities.

What do you mean?

Isn't it a lack of awareness of the depth of NAZI atrocities?

 

[sirvaliantbrown]

Player said it and the writer decided it would add to the context of the story. It passed through his mind, the editor's mind and the publisher's mind and then into the minds of the readers. If someone thought it was wrong, it would have not run in the story. Maybe it's a jumbled analogy, but it's a good enough quote to get in there.

I'm not criticizing Hack or SI, though some "we-don't-believe-this-analogy-is-valid" aside would have been good - I'm criticizing Player.

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

Player said it and the writer decided it would add to the context of the story. It passed through his mind, the editor's mind and the publisher's mind and then into the minds of the readers. If someone thought it was wrong, it would have not run in the story. Maybe it's a jumbled analogy, but it's a good enough quote to get in there.

Well.... a writer and editor CAN run the quote simply because they believe it will get a big reaction, paying no mind to legitimate context. That is possible.

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

From SI's piece on black golfing pioneer Lee Elder: "It's hard to explain what it was like for Lee," says Gary Player, who as apartheid reigned in 1971, boldly invited Elder to play in the South African PGA Championship. Lee accepted. "How do you explain," asks Player, "what it was like being a Jew during the war?"

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1727848,00.html

"The war"? Like...the Second World War? In which six million Jews were massacred?

I don't care very much, but that's one seriously bad analogy right there.

Maybe it's not as bad an analogy as it is a lack of awareness of the depth of the South African atrocities.

What do you mean?

Isn't it a lack of awareness of the depth of NAZI atrocities?

We know the Nazi numbers.

We don't know... never will.... the numbers in South Africa. They are immense, though, I am sure of that.

 

[sirvaliantbrown]

Player said it and the writer decided it would add to the context of the story. It passed through his mind, the editor's mind and the publisher's mind and then into the minds of the readers. If someone thought it was wrong, it would have not run in the story. Maybe it's a jumbled analogy, but it's a good enough quote to get in there.

Well.... a writer and editor CAN run the quote simply because they believe it will get a big reaction, paying no mind to legitimate context. That is possible.

Of course, but that very clearly wasn't the case here. It was buried in the middle of the story, it was not the point of the story, and it was not from either the story's subject or a currently-important other person.

That said, again, it's fine that they ran it! Just shouldn't have been said.

 

[sirvaliantbrown]

We don't know... never will.... the numbers in South Africa. They are immense, though, I am sure of that.

Absolutely absolutely fair enough, as a general statement. I'm just unclear as to how Player's quote, which compared the discrimination faced by a golfer to the Holocaust of the Jews, is evidence that he doesn't understand South Africa or discrimination against blacks and not that he doesn't understand the Holocaust.

 

[Rumpleforeskin]

Player said it and the writer decided it would add to the context of the story. It passed through his mind, the editor's mind and the publisher's mind and then into the minds of the readers. If someone thought it was wrong, it would have not run in the story. Maybe it's a jumbled analogy, but it's a good enough quote to get in there.

Well.... a writer and editor CAN run the quote simply because they believe it will get a big reaction, paying no mind to legitimate context. That is possible.

Agreed, but in a story like this, it's doesn't jump out like a "LOOK AT ME, I AM IN HERE TO GET A REACTION" quote.

 

[93Devil]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idi_amin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin

What I think Simon is saying is that the Holocaust is not the only terrible thing done by human hands in the last 100 years.

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

We don't know... never will.... the numbers in South Africa. They are immense, though, I am sure of that.

Absolutely absolutely fair enough, as a general statement. I'm just unclear as to how Player's quote, which compared the discrimination faced by a golfer to the Holocaust of the Jews, is evidence that he doesn't understand South Africa or discrimination against blacks and not that he doesn't understand the Holocaust.

I'm guessing that Elder was fully protected as a visiting golfer.... so in that sense, it is odd.

 

[sirvaliantbrown]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idi_amin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenin

What I think Simon is saying is that the Holocaust is not the only terrible thing done by human hands in the last 100 years.

Whoa...I can't believe this thread has become THIS...

Nobody, certainly not me, argues that the Holocaust was the only bad thing ever. What I am arguing is that the Holocaust cannot correctly be compared to discrimination against a golfer, even in apartheid South Africa. That is the totality of my argument.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

In terms of strict historical accuracy, the Brits invented the concept of the concentration camp for the Boers during the war in SA.
Meanwhile, back at the argument, what Player said was not artful, but the history of what white people did to black people in Africa, up to and including the SA during the period under discussion, is one of the few things in history that can even be mentioned in connection with the Holocaust. SVB, I don't think Player was comparing Elder at that moment with a Jewish citizen of, say, Munich in 1942, but, rather, comparing two ongoing historical acts of genocide, one slower-moving than the other. I grant you he could have said it better.