Civil War Thread

[YankeeFan]

I really like this song about the Irish Brigade at the Battle of Fredericksburg, where they suffered massive casualties:

 

[User 11148]

I really like this song about the Irish Brigade at the Battle of Fredericksburg ...

Gen. Ambrose Burnside's "performance" at Fredericksburg has to rank in the top three to top five -- if not No. 1 -- of the worst examples of military leadership in U.S. history.

 

[User 11148]

And, pace @YankeeFan, to those who presume such racial enlightenment on the part of the Northern citizenry during the Civil War, we should not forget how ... demonstrative ... were the New York Irish in their complaints about the prosecution of the war.

New York City draft riots - Wikipedia

 

[YankeeFan]

And, pace @YankeeFan, to those who presume such racial enlightenment on the part of the Northern citizenry during the Civil War, we should not forget how ... demonstrative ... were the New York Irish in their complaints about the prosecution of the war.

New York City draft riots - Wikipedia

Nothing could be more patriotic.

 

[YankeeFan]

Gen. Ambrose Burnside's "performance" at Fredericksburg has to rank in the top three to top five -- if not No. 1 -- of the worst examples of military leadership in U.S. history.

Didn't prevent him from being memorialized in a statue in Providence, in a park named in his honor.

 

[Starman]

I'd guess my Irish forebears, fresh from being effectively driven out of Ireland by the genocidal policies of the British government, were probably somewhat less than wildly enthusiastic about being told they had to go get killed for a government they'd only lived under for five years or so.

 

[YankeeFan]

I'd guess my Irish forebears, fresh from being effectively driven out of Ireland by the genocidal policies of the British government, were probably somewhat less than wildly enthusiastic about being told they had to go get killed for a government they'd only lived under for five years or so.

That's true for many.

But, many also served, some with the intent of gaining the military experience to go back to Ireland, with a brigade of Irish-Americans who would fight for Irish independence.

 

[Justin_Rice]

Gen. Ambrose Burnside's "performance" at Fredericksburg has to rank in the top three to top five -- if not No. 1 -- of the worst examples of military leadership in U.S. history.

McClellan always wins for me when it comes to "worst army commanders of the Civil War."

While Stonewall Jackson was running circles around Banks in the Second Manassas Campaign, McClellan was intentionally slowing the arrival of the Army of the Potomac from the peninsula, in the hopes that Banks' failures would leave the Lincoln Administration no choice but to turn back to McClellan. He was actively sabotaging the Union war effort for personal gain.

Army command was above Burnside's ability - and he, in fact, turned it down twice before accepting to keep Hooker out of command. But I can look past ineptitude when it's compared to malice.

 

[User 11148]

Yeah, McClellan was no prize ... but his foibles, while bad enough, don't quite conform to the actual "military leadership" definition.

We should probably note that Grant had a boner or two, as well. His performance at Cold Harbor was nothing to write home about. Winners win, though.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Gen. Ambrose Burnside's "performance" at Fredericksburg has to rank in the top three to top five -- if not No. 1 -- of the worst examples of military leadership in U.S. history.

But the man did have a flair for the dramatic.

 

[cyclingwriter2]

Urban legend or actual truth? Sideburns became a thing because of burnsides? The word hooker became synonymous with prostitutin because of the camp followers of Gen. Hooker.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Urban legend or actual truth? Sideburns became a thing because of burnsides? The word hooker became synonymous with prostitutin because of the camp followers of Gen. Hooker.

According to the Internets (and I always thought it was so), sideburns are a corruption of "Burnside."

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Both the Unions and Confederates camped on what is now my hunting property. I can take you to two different locations where researchers from the university have dug up musket balls and belt buckles and other debris from their camps.

 

[Pilot]

The best appreciation for how close the South came to winning the war came from James McPherson's Tried by War: Lincoln as Commander in Chief (I haven't read Battle Cry of Freedom, so I have no idea if he was just rehashing the same ideas, but, nevertheless....) and, of course, Team of Rivals.

What stood out to me most was how effectively Lincoln held various Northern factions together, and how tenuous those relationships were all the way through until the final campaigns of the war in 1865. The details are fuzzy now since it's been a few years, but it was a delicate balancing act throughout the war to keep everyone in the North pulling the same direction, and that greatly affected how and where the war was fought.

I always pictured the North going full throttle after 1st Bull Run, intent on winning a complete victory, but that was certainly not the case and there were numerous real opportunities during the war for some kind of negotiated peace, far more than I ever realized, and many of those would have looked at least a little like a victory for the South.

 

[Spartan Squad]

One aspect of the Civil War that has captured my attention is the service of Irish Immigrants.

From guys like Thomas Francis Meagher, who was sentenced to death in his native Ireland for his role in the Irish Rebellion of 1848, and who later rose to prominence in America, to the thousands who fought on both sides of the conflict -- though mostly for the North -- Irish immigrants were prominent throughout the war, as generals, and as cannon fodder.

Meagher is now memorialized in a statue on the grounds of the Montana Capitol:

One of my dad's favorite history lessons from Mexico were Los San Patricios during the Mexican-American war where the Irish soldiers defected to fight for their Catholic counterparts.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

The best appreciation for how close the South came to winning the war came from James McPherson's Tried by War: Lincoln as Commander in Chief (I haven't read Battle Cry of Freedom, so I have no idea if he was just rehashing the same ideas, but, nevertheless....) and, of course, Team of Rivals.

What stood out to me most was how effectively Lincoln held various Northern factions together, and how tenuous those relationships were all the way through until the final campaigns of the war in 1865. The details are fuzzy now since it's been a few years, but it was a delicate balancing act throughout the war to keep everyone in the North pulling the same direction, and that greatly affected how and where the war was fought.

I always pictured the North going full throttle after 1st Bull Run, intent on winning a complete victory, but that was certainly not the case and there were numerous real opportunities during the war for some kind of negotiated peace, far more than I ever realized, and many of those would have looked at least a little like a victory for the South.

One of Lincoln's strategies for doing that was to let private citizens run their own peace feelers to the Confederacy, believing the efforts would fail to even get started and thus discredit negotiation. The only meeting he participated in was in the late winter of 1865 (maybe out of past friendship with Confederate VP Stevens) in which Lincoln said he had nothing to offer. Of course, by then it was obvious the war was nearly won.
One of Lincoln's biggest fears was that Union and Confederate generals, who all knew each other from very small prewar West Point, would negotiate their own armistices on various battlefields.

 

[dixiehack]

Late-Blooming Dad Just Now Getting Into Civil War History

 

[Starman]

That was the functional impact of the Emancipation Proclamation: after that, the Union was pretty much committed to unconditional victory.

After that, any sort of halfway settlement that allowed even a limited continuation of slavery would have been a disaster for the Union.

 

[YankeeFan]

One of my dad's favorite history lessons from Mexico were Los San Patricios during the Mexican-American war where the Irish soldiers defected to fight for their Catholic counterparts.

We don't watch TV in front of Fiona, so in the mornings, while Fiona's mom is at work, we listen to Irish music.

(We listen to a Gaelic Storm Pandora station, which gives us a good mix of Irish rock and roll, as well traditional songs.)

Heard this song this morning about the leader of the San Patricios, which got me onto reading about them/him.

He didn't get executed, as many of them did, but they did brand a "D" for deserter on his cheek.



Lyrics: John Riley | The Paul McKenna Band

 

[trifectarich]

The Weather Channel has this churning-sea graphic running near the bottom of the screen. When they go to a reporter, that shot shows the person down to the knee, then it looks like they're standing in the ocean with water all around them. It's horrible.