CEO pay vs average worker pay

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Gehrig

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I'm curious as to what argument could possibly justify this.



This is just one example of the vast gulf between CEO pay and average worker pay. Here's another graphic that illustrates this




What is the justification for this kind of disparity?
 
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Consider the hourly wage for someone like A-Rod or Kobe Bryant or [fill in the blank for a sports superstar here] and compare it to the hourly wage for someone in the PR department for the team that employs the superstar.

Is that justifiable?

If it is, then this disparity is justifiable with similar reasoning. If not...
 
jackfinarelli said:
Consider the hourly wage for someone like A-Rod or Kobe Bryant or [fill in the blank for a sports superstar here] and compare it to the hourly wage for someone in the PR department for the team that employs the superstar.

Is that justifiable?

If it is, then this disparity is justifiable with similar reasoning. If not...

Apples and oranges.

Anyone with a certain baseline intelligence can, through hard work and study, acquire the knowledge and skills to become a CEO.

But no matter how much work and practice one puts in, he or she cannot rise to the top of a sport without winning the genetic lottery.
 
doctorquant said:
Why does it need to be justified?

Just once I'd like to see a shareholders board tell a CEO to pound sand if he or she has a bad year. Just once I'd like to see a suit ****ed over by Right to Work.
 
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Uncle.Ruckus said:
doctorquant said:
Why does it need to be justified?

Just once I'd like to see a shareholders board tell a CEO to pound sand if he or she has a bad year. Just once I'd like to see a suit ****ed over by Right to Work.
c.f. J.C. Penney.
 
Dream about threesomes with SEC cheerleaders instead. More pleasing thoughts and a better chance of happening.
 
The average Wal-Mart worker is responsible for four aisles in health and beauty. The CEO is responsible for 2 million jobs and thousands of stores.

It's not like Wal-Mart's pay structure is a secret. And yet workers continue to work there, and there's a steady line of applicants.
 
novelist_wannabe said:
The average Wal-Mart worker is responsible for four aisles in health and beauty. The CEO is responsible for 2 million jobs and thousands of stores.

It's not like Wal-Mart's pay structure is a secret. And yet workers continue to work there, and there's a steady line of applicants.

If the average worker doesn't show up to work for two weeks, those aisles fall behind in terms of merchandise and service. A CEO doesn't show up to work, the company continues to exist.

I should know. I worked for a company whose CEO took over 3 months off for his bad back. The company didn't fall apart without him.
 
**** on all of you peons and pass the grey poupon!

Oh and most top management can be missed for days if not weeks and business continues.
 
It's just bad business repeated over and over again in many companies. They overpay for the CEO. They just do. Far too often, the CEO is just a "confidence face" for a stock price. You can recruit those for far cheaper than what those folks are paid.
 
Alma said:
It's just bad business repeated over and over again in many companies. They overpay for the CEO. They just do. Far too often, the CEO is just a "confidence face" for a stock price. You can recruit those for far cheaper than what those folks are paid.
With your ability to accurately price a CEO's real contribution, I would assume you routinely put your money on the line and sell short the stocks of those companies who overpay.
 
Wal-Mart has seen incredible sales and earnings growth. It had sales of $165 billion in 2000. Last year, sales were $443 billion. That is some serious growth. Mike Duke has been there that whole time -- since well before then -- even if he wasn't CEO the whole time. I am sure that is why the owners, or shareholders, of the company (the ones who actually pay his salary, as opposed to the people on here who can opine off the cuff about who is overpaid and what they actually deserve), think he is worth that compensation. The way I look at it, it's none of my business. I don't own any part of Wal-Mart. It really IS none of my business.

You can recruit Pauly Shore to be CEO of Wal-Mart. But if you really think it's that easy, you are clueless. The notion that "anyone with the baseline intelligence can, through hard work and study, acquire the knowledge and skills to become a CEO," may or may not be true.

But if you believe that, test yourself. Start a business, with yourself as CEO, and grow it -- with anywhere near the success Wal-Mart has had. Even replicating that kind of success at the small business level is incredibly difficult. If it wasn't, more people would have success.

In the case of Wal-Mart? That $443 billion in revenue last year, was more than the entire economic output of Austria. If Wal-Mart was a country, it would be one of the top 30 economies in the world. The company doesn't just run itself, and when you get that big, it is very difficult to keep driving earnings growth. I really think many of you underestimate what is involved in steering a ship that large, the pressure that comes with that job, and how difficult it is to keep earnings growing.
 
doctorquant said:
Alma said:
It's just bad business repeated over and over again in many companies. They overpay for the CEO. They just do. Far too often, the CEO is just a "confidence face" for a stock price. You can recruit those for far cheaper than what those folks are paid.
With your ability to accurately price a CEO's real contribution, I would assume you routinely put your money on the line and sell short the stocks of those companies who overpay.

If almost all of them do it, then it's an embedded characteristic. Doesn't mean there isn't a Moneyball way.
 
Let's have Mike Duke start a business, then. Or Tim Cook, for that matter.
 
Alma said:
doctorquant said:
Alma said:
It's just bad business repeated over and over again in many companies. They overpay for the CEO. They just do. Far too often, the CEO is just a "confidence face" for a stock price. You can recruit those for far cheaper than what those folks are paid.
With your ability to accurately price a CEO's real contribution, I would assume you routinely put your money on the line and sell short the stocks of those companies who overpay.

If almost all of them do it, then it's an embedded characteristic. Doesn't mean there isn't a Moneyball way.
"Overpaying," as you put it, wouldn't be a binary characteristic. Even if all of them overpay, some would overpay more than others. With your abilities, you should be able to pick out which companies have overpaid the most and make a killing.
 
The Big Ragu said:
The way I look at it, it's none of my business. I don't own any part of Wal-Mart. It really IS none of my business.

We'd better cancel all the other threads on here where folks don't have a financial stake in the sports teams then. And if you don't work for Gannett, ****, you'd better not say a word about their financial practices.

Good straw man on the Pauly Shore reference, too. Because, yes, there wouldn't be anyone between Mike Duke and Pauly Shore who could run Wal-Mart.

My point is there's about 30 people at Wal-Mart who could probably run Wal-Mart, and make considerably less. Perhaps your point is Mike Duke is a magic bullet.
 
doctorquant said:
Alma said:
doctorquant said:
Alma said:
It's just bad business repeated over and over again in many companies. They overpay for the CEO. They just do. Far too often, the CEO is just a "confidence face" for a stock price. You can recruit those for far cheaper than what those folks are paid.
With your ability to accurately price a CEO's real contribution, I would assume you routinely put your money on the line and sell short the stocks of those companies who overpay.

If almost all of them do it, then it's an embedded characteristic. Doesn't mean there isn't a Moneyball way.
"Overpaying," as you put it, wouldn't be a binary characteristic. Even if all of them overpay, some would overpay more than others. With your abilities, you should be able to pick out which companies have overpaid the most and make a killing.

This would presume overpayment of CEOs correlates to the business practices of the company. It may not. It probably does not. I've seen colleges with absolute buffoons for deans that were terrific because of the professors working around them. Years and years (and years) ago, I worked for a summer lawn company where the owner was six months away from a year-long trip to dry out. He couldn't have told you what day it was. It was still a good lawn service, with his enabling sister doing the books.
 
jackfinarelli said:
Consider the hourly wage for someone like A-Rod or Kobe Bryant or [fill in the blank for a sports superstar here] and compare it to the hourly wage for someone in the PR department for the team that employs the superstar.

Is that justifiable?

If it is, then this disparity is justifiable with similar reasoning. If not...

But you also have to consider the performance of an A-Rod against the performance of a PR person.

True, you probably would be able to find plenty of other PR people who could fill the role, but by paying A-Rod $28 million (or whatever he makes these days), that says that he cannot be replaced very easily. But as the Yankees are proving this year, they've done quite well without him. He's not living up to his value for this year.

Now, like all major leaguers, he has that guaranteed contract, but in the real world, there aren't very many employees who have guaranteed multi-year contracts. If he was like the rest of us on a year-to-year (or really, day-to-day) basis, odds are he would have only made a fraction of that $28 million this year because of last year's performance and the injury. And judging by how the Yankees are doing this year, he probably wouldn't be making as much next year.

Judge A-Rod like a CEO whose performance is poor, and there'd be a lot of carping about him too. Come to think of it, there's been plenty of that. Because his performance, as well as his past attitude, is not living up to his pay package.

Charlie Finley once suggested that if the MLB owners would really be on the ball with free agency, they'd only allow one-year contracts because there would be mass quantities of players competing with each other each free-agency winter for a finite amount of money, which would have made the most valuable players rich, and the less valuable poor. That of course, was dismissed, both for the sheer chaos it would have caused, and because nobody would want to bunt because it could cost them money. If A-Rod was on a year-by-year contract, odds are, he'd be making much less now. Because there wouldn't be too many teams falling over themselves to sign an .050 postseason hitter with a bad hip.

In the Walmart scenario, using the 1983 numbers of 42 times the average worker, the CEO should be making about $1.1 million. Which means that people are looking at what he does to justify earning the extra $19+ million. He may be the best CEO of all time and deserve it. But if his performance is poor, would Walmart be able to get along without him? Probably.

When we look at high salaries, we look to see if they justify their pay. If someone is the among the highest-paid in their industry, I expect that they're among the best in the industry. If they're not, then nobody should be surprised if people get upset about what they're doing to earn their pay. If A-Rod comes back and hits .220 this year, people will boo him. If profits fall and the stock price tumbles, people will complain about the CEO.
 

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